World Junior Championships 2023

[NickFaulks]

60 is clearly excessive and devalues a World Championship.

Would you say the same about Olympiads? There also, many of the entrants are very weak but they really don't affect anything ( maybe they do when Sonneborn-Berger is used, but that is a self inflicted wound ).

[Thomas Rendle]

I'm confused; host nations don't add lots of extra teams at Olympiads, maybe one or two. There are weaker nations of course but theoretically at least they're sending their best teams. To compete in an Olympiad you need to be in the top 5 or so from your country.

To compete in this World Junior you need to be one of the top 60 players aged 16-20 or so in Mexico. The bottom 50 should be in a separate event.

[NickFaulks]

I'm confused; host nations don't add lots of extra teams at Olympiads, maybe one or two. There are weaker nations of course but theoretically at least they're sending their best teams. To compete in an Olympiad you need to be in the top 5 or so from your country.

To compete in this World Junior you need to be one of the top 60 players aged 16-20 or so in Mexico. The bottom 50 should be in a separate event.

Ah, so if every federation sent a junior to this event, the bottom 60 of whom would be of around the same strength as the Mexicans they replaced, you would be fine with that. It is only because the players are local, which is the reason why the event got the funding without which it would not have happened, that you are offended.

[Thomas Rendle]

I'm confused; host nations don't add lots of extra teams at Olympiads, maybe one or two. There are weaker nations of course but theoretically at least they're sending their best teams. To compete in an Olympiad you need to be in the top 5 or so from your country.

To compete in this World Junior you need to be one of the top 60 players aged 16-20 or so in Mexico. The bottom 50 should be in a separate event.

Ah, so if every federation sent a junior to this event, the bottom 60 of whom would be of around the same strength as the Mexicans they replaced, you would be fine with that. It is only because the players are local, which is the reason why the event got the funding without which it would not have happened, that you are offended.

If FIDE can't find places to hold these events then that's clearly a problem, but these events are supposed to be prestigious. If every federation sent a junior that would be fantastic - those players are the best in their country. World Championships should be the best players from each country competing together. For a host nation to get a few extra places is absolutely fine. 60 is not a few extra places.

[Christopher Kreuzer]

If you look at the history of the event, it has in the past been extremely prestigious. Is it less so now? Maybe some specific comparisons with the early history and the recent past would help. No time to do that now, but a history is here:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_J ... ampionship

Winners list is complete. Detailed history further down the page only goes up to 2014 at present.

[NickFaulks]

Is it less so now?

Thirteen GMs are taking part, plus three IMs rated 2537 or above. Not bad for a junior event.

[Paul Cooksey]

Not bad, but only 2 of the 16 over 2600. I guess the point is that in a previous generation a Gukesh or a Keymer might have wanted to win this event to raise their profile. Today, less necessary.

[LawrenceCooper]

Yes, but not 2 or 3 unhelpful wins

Why not?

Yes, I should have checked the number of rounds.

You could disregard 2 unhelpful wins.

You couldn’t however disregard 3 unhelpful wins because that would only leave you with 8 games.

You can only discard one win anyway, regardless of the number of rounds.

[ThomasEvans]

You can only discard one win anyway, regardless of the number of rounds.

I always thought you could discard multiple wins.

https://handbook.fide.com/chapter/B012023

1.4.1f: A player may ignore their game(s) against any opponents they have defeated, provided they have met the required mix of opponents, and provided that this leaves them with at least the minimum number of games as in 1.4.1, against the required mix of opponents. Nonetheless, the full cross-table of the event must be submitted.

[NickFaulks]

You can only discard one win anyway, regardless of the number of rounds.

No, it explicitly says "game(s)"

[NickFaulks]

Not bad, but only 2 of the 16 over 2600. I guess the point is that in a previous generation a Gukesh or a Keymer might have wanted to win this event to raise their profile. Today, less necessary.

That's true. If you're already in the big money elite circuit, less need. Not an issue for Niemann, of course.

[LawrenceCooper]

You can only discard one win anyway, regardless of the number of rounds.

No, it explicitly says "game(s)"

The 2023 regulations do indeed say that:

1.4.1 f A player may ignore their game(s) against any opponents they have defeated, provided they have met the required mix of opponents, and provided that this leaves them with at least the minimum number of games as in 1.4.1, against the required mix of opponents. Nonetheless, the full cross-table of the event must be submitted.

I had mixed this up with the number of opponents that could be rounded up which is one but used to be two (from memory).

[Ian Thompson]

It is only because the players are local, which is the reason why the event got the funding without which it would not have happened, that you are offended.

Are the Mexican players playing on the same terms as everyone else or are they being given special treatment? It seems surprising to me that so many very low rated players would think it worth spending well over €1000 (the mandatory organiser provided accommodation costs alone being €1020) to play in this event.

[NickFaulks]

It is only because the players are local, which is the reason why the event got the funding without which it would not have happened, that you are offended.

Are the Mexican players playing on the same terms as everyone else or are they being given special treatment? It seems surprising to me that so many very low rated players would think it worth spending well over €1000 (the mandatory organiser provided accommodation costs alone being €1020) to play in this event.

You are clutching at straws now, I think.

[Geoff Chandler]

Meanwhile...Hans lost his Rd3 game to fellow American Andy Woodward (2480)

H. Niemann - A. Woodward, World Junior Championship 2023

1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 e5 5.Nxe5 O-O 6.Nf3 Re8 7.d3 d5 8.cxd5 Nxd5 9.Bd2 Bg4 10.Be2 Nb4 11.Be3 Bxf3 12.gxf3 N8c6 13.h4 Nd4 14.Rc1 Qd6 15.a3 Na6 16.f4 Rad8 17.b4 c5 18.e5 Qe7 19.b5 Nc7 20.Qa4 Qe6 21.Bd1 Qf5 22.Qc4 Bh6 23.Ne4 Bxf4 24.Nf6+ Kg7 25.Nxe8+ Rxe8 26.Qxc5 Ncxb5 27.O-O Rxe5 28.Bxd4 Nxd4 29.Qxd4 Bxc1 30.Re1 Bf4 31.Re4 Qf6 32.h5 Rg5+ 33.Kf1 Be5 34.Qxa7 b6 35.Qa8 gxh5 36.Re3 Bh2 37.Re8 Rg1+ 38.Ke2 Kh6 39.Bc2 Qc3 40.Rc8 Re1+ 41.Kf3 Qf6+ 42.Kg2 Rg1+