BCC026.jpg
This is not me playing the game it was online but can you spot the combination i could have played which gained me an edge if played. To my human eyes i thought i was in trouble and so thought only defensively not attackinglycan you spot the tactic that gets black a draw here?
-
- Posts: 687
- Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:40 am
- Location: Barrow, England
can you spot the tactic that gets black a draw here?
This is not me playing the game it was online but can you spot the combination i could have played which gained me an edge if played. To my human eyes i thought i was in trouble and so thought only defensively not attackingly
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by AlanLlewellyn on Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 8824
- Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:34 am
- Location: London
Re: can you spot the tactic that gets black a draw here?
Which move are you talking about where Black can get a draw?
-
- Posts: 687
- Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:40 am
- Location: Barrow, England
Re: can you spot the tactic that gets black a draw here?
after 36 Kd2 , 36...Bh6?? was a game losing blunder
-
- Posts: 8824
- Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:34 am
- Location: London
Re: can you spot the tactic that gets black a draw here?
Is it 36...Bxc3+ allowing the Black king to support the pawn queening after 37.Kxc3 Ke3 38.Nb7 Kf2 39.Kd2 Rxb2+ 40.Rxb2 e1=Q+. (38.Kb3 Ra4 doesn't help White.) So White probably needs to just play 37.Kxe2.
It's a nice combination (if I have analysed it right).
It's a nice combination (if I have analysed it right).
Last edited by Christopher Kreuzer on Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 3558
- Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:31 pm
- Location: Awbridge, Hampshire
Re: can you spot the tactic that gets black a draw here?
Yes. It's not difficult to find once you know there's a combination instead of 36.... Bh6+. It looks to me like the best move in that position is clearly winning for Black.AlanLlewellyn wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:42 pmcan you spot the combination i could have played which gained me an edge if played.
-
- Posts: 3558
- Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:31 pm
- Location: Awbridge, Hampshire
Re: can you spot the tactic that gets black a draw here?
No. Right idea, but wrong first move.
-
- Posts: 8824
- Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:34 am
- Location: London
Re: can you spot the tactic that gets black a draw here?
Are you saying that Black takes on b2 with the rook after the White king takes on e2 and that the bishop is winning against the knight in that endgame? I wish I was strong enough to be sure of that sort of thing without having to think quite carefully about it... (I think Black can keep his b5 pawn and win with that).
EDIT: After seeing Ian's post above.
Oh, phoeey! I knew I hadn't got it quite right!
EDIT: After seeing Ian's post above.
Oh, phoeey! I knew I hadn't got it quite right!
-
- Posts: 687
- Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:40 am
- Location: Barrow, England
Re: can you spot the tactic that gets black a draw here?
Yes there is a nicer combination than 36...Bxc3+ namely- 36...Rxb2+!! 37 Rxb2 Bxc3+!! 38 Kxe2 Bxb2
-
- Posts: 8824
- Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:34 am
- Location: London
Re: can you spot the tactic that gets black a draw here?
Oh, let me do this in real time...
I can see that queening the pawn first works if Black takes the pawn and then White takes on b2 and then bishop takes on c3 with check. But surely White just takes on e1 with check? Are you sure it is not you doing the moves in the wrong order, Ian?
EDIT: OK, I see it now!
I can see that queening the pawn first works if Black takes the pawn and then White takes on b2 and then bishop takes on c3 with check. But surely White just takes on e1 with check? Are you sure it is not you doing the moves in the wrong order, Ian?
EDIT: OK, I see it now!
-
- Posts: 8824
- Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:34 am
- Location: London
Re: can you spot the tactic that gets black a draw here?
Doesn't that just end up in one of the lines I gave in my original post?AlanLlewellyn wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:59 pmYes there is a nicer combination than 36...Bxc3+ namely- 36...Rxb2+!! 37 Rxb2 Bxc3+!! 38 Kxe2 Bxb2
-
- Posts: 687
- Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:40 am
- Location: Barrow, England
Re: can you spot the tactic that gets black a draw here?
37 ...e1=Q+ ?? is a mistake because of 38 Kxe1 Bxc3+ 39 Rd2!? Ke3 40 Nb3 and black is a busted flush
-
- Posts: 21315
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm
Re: can you spot the tactic that gets black a draw here?
It's elegant, play a couple of moves of "losing chess", sacrificing the remaining bits. That's assuming that taking the Bishop and allowing a new Queen is winning for Black. Probably as queens can be killers.AlanLlewellyn wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:59 pmYes there is a nicer combination than 36...Bxc3+ namely- 36...Rxb2+!! 37 Rxb2 Bxc3+!! 38 Kxe2 Bxb2
-
- Posts: 8824
- Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:34 am
- Location: London
Re: can you spot the tactic that gets black a draw here?
I was talking about 36...e1=Q+, not on move 37. And I was talking rubbish because White takes on e1 with the rook.AlanLlewellyn wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:05 pm37 ...e1=Q+ ?? is a mistake because of 38 Kxe1 Bxc3+ 39 Rd2!? Ke3 40 Nb3 and black is a busted flush
-
- Posts: 8824
- Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:34 am
- Location: London
Re: can you spot the tactic that gets black a draw here?
I prefer 36...Bxc3+ and I'd still play that after considering all the above, as I'd prefer to be in a cleanly winning BvN endgame than trying to win with Queen against rook and knight. Though Black would probably win the kingside pawns quickly and then win easily.Roger de Coverly wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:05 pmIt's elegant, play a couple of moves of "losing chess", sacrificing the remaining bits. That's assuming that taking the Bishop and allowing a new Queen is winning for Black. Probably as queens can be killers.AlanLlewellyn wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:59 pmYes there is a nicer combination than 36...Bxc3+ namely- 36...Rxb2+!! 37 Rxb2 Bxc3+!! 38 Kxe2 Bxb2
Actually, I'd probably lose on time while trying to decide between those two moves...
-
- Posts: 687
- Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:40 am
- Location: Barrow, England
Re: can you spot the tactic that gets black a draw here?
i even looked at Rxb2 and individually Bxc3 in the game but decided in that exact position that both were dumb, (I was too concerned about losing my rook)Roger de Coverly wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:05 pmIt's elegant, play a couple of moves of "losing chess", sacrificing the remaining bits. That's assuming that taking the Bishop and allowing a new Queen is winning for Black. Probably as queens can be killers.AlanLlewellyn wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:59 pmYes there is a nicer combination than 36...Bxc3+ namely- 36...Rxb2+!! 37 Rxb2 Bxc3+!! 38 Kxe2 Bxb2