out of the blue in an english line i invented

[Kevin Thurlow]

I recall in the mid-80s (ish) someone annotating a game claimed that a move was a TN. The next issue of "Chess" carried a letter from Michael Macdonald-Ross pointing out that his 1971 book on the opening had an entire chapter on the move... Annotators tended to look at Chessbase and not remember that chess didn't start in the early 80s.

[MJMcCready]

I recall in the mid-80s (ish) someone annotating a game claimed that a move was a TN. The next issue of "Chess" carried a letter from Michael Macdonald-Ross pointing out that his 1971 book on the opening had an entire chapter on the move... Annotators tended to look at Chessbase and not remember that chess didn't start in the early 80s.

Yes but also sometimes people give the same thing different names without realising. This was especially true in the Soviet Union where openings were named after regions sometimes, and that in itself was often both hotly disputed and left unresolved.

[AlanLlewellyn]

[Event "ICC tourney 2655 (45 10)"] [Site "Internet Chess Club"] [Date "2022.07.31"] [Round "4"] [White "Llewellyn, Alan Mansel"] [Black "alexcolins"] [Result "1-0"] [ECO "A27"] [WhiteElo "1476"] [BlackElo "1267"] [Annotator "Llewellyn,Alan"] [PlyCount "43"] [EventDate "2022.??.??"] 1. c4 e5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. Nf3 f5 4. e4 f4 $2 $14 5. g3 $6 $14 (5. d4 d6 6. dxe5 dxe5 7. Qxd8+ Kxd8 8. Ng5 Nh6 $14) 5... d6 6. gxf4 exf4 7. d4 Bg4 8. Be2 Nf6 9. Bxf4 Qe7 $6 $16 10. e5 $6 $16 dxe5 11. Nxe5 $6 $14 Nxe5 $4 $18 (11... Bxe2 $1 12. Nxe2 $16 (12. Nxc6 $4 Bxd1+ 13. Nxe7 Bf3 $19)) 12. dxe5 Bxe2 (12... Nh5 13. Bxg4 Nxf4 14. Qd4 Ne6 15. Qd5 Nf4 16. Qe4 Ne6 17. Nd5 Qf7 18. Bxe6 Qxe6 19. Nxc7+ Kf7 20. Qf3+ Ke7 21. Nxe6 Kxe6 22. Qd5+ Ke7 23. O-O-O Rg8 24. Qd7#) 13. exf6 $4 $14 (13. Qxe2 $3 {the knight doesnt have a good square to go to} O-O-O (13... Nd7 14. Nd5 $18) (13... Ng8 14. Nd5 Qd7 15. e6 Qc8 16. Nxc7+ Ke7 17. O-O-O g6 18. Rd7+ Kf6 19. Qe5#)) 13... Qxf6 $4 $18 (13... Bxd1+ 14. fxe7 Bf3 15. Rg1 Kxe7 16. Rg3 Bc6 17. O-O-O $14) 14. Qxe2+ Kf7 15. Qh5+ $1 g6 16. Qd5+ Qe6+ 17. Qxe6+ Kxe6 18. O-O-O c6 19. Rhe1+ Kf7 20. Rd7+ Kf6 21. Re5 $3 b6 (21... g5 22. Ne4+ Kg6 23. Rxg5+ Kh6 24. Ng3 Bd6 25. Nf5#) 22. Ne4# 1-0 a different opening entirely but showing a similar attack on e5 and a Nxe5. This shows that the possibility of a Black light squared Bishop retreat to f3(after taking on d1) always needs considering by White- the lack of a pawn on g2 means this threat is potent and i nearly throw away a win here in this todays game i played at 45 10 tc.

[AlanLlewellyn]

r3kb1r/ppp1q1pp/5P2/8/2P2B2/2N5/PP2bP1P/R2QK2R b KQkq - 0 1313...Bxd1! instead of 13...Qxf6?? played which loses a piece 14 fxe7 Bf3 15 Rg1 Kxe7 is small advatage to white.

[Kevin Thurlow]

"I recall in the mid-80s (ish) someone annotating a game claimed that a move was a TN. The next issue of "Chess" carried a letter from Michael Macdonald-Ross pointing out that his 1971 book on the opening had an entire chapter on the move... Annotators tended to look at Chessbase and not remember that chess didn't start in the early 80s."

"Yes but also sometimes people give the same thing different names without realising. This was especially true in the Soviet Union where openings were named after regions sometimes, and that in itself was often both hotly disputed and left unresolved."

Fans of Harold Pinter will enjoy that response.

[AlanLlewellyn]

did harold pinter have a nickname or is that the point? LOL

[AlanLlewellyn]

You wont mind me digressing at this point but boy do i love everything about England after the Lionesses win.

[Joey Stewart]

I recall in the mid-80s (ish) someone annotating a game claimed that a move was a TN. The next issue of "Chess" carried a letter from Michael Macdonald-Ross pointing out that his 1971 book on the opening had an entire chapter on the move... Annotators tended to look at Chessbase and not remember that chess didn't start in the early 80s.

Yes but also sometimes people give the same thing different names without realising. This was especially true in the Soviet Union where openings were named after regions sometimes, and that in itself was often both hotly disputed and left unresolved.

It is an ongoing problem - I've seen several openings renamed by people presumably trying to claim them as their own, and not just obscure little sidelines either but major ones like Scandinavian (center counter), phillodor (lions defence), c3 Sicilian (alapin), svesnikov (pelikan), modern (sniper)

[Kevin Thurlow]

"It is an ongoing problem - I've seen several openings renamed by people presumably trying to claim them as their own, and not just obscure little sidelines either but major ones like Scandinavian (center counter), phillodor (lions defence), c3 Sicilian (alapin), svesnikov (pelikan), modern (sniper)"

Should this have a separate thread?

I was talking about "new" moves in a line, which turned out not to be new moves. Then people bizarrely think I am talking about nomenclature of openings, which is quite clearly an entirely different subject.

[Roger de Coverly]

I've seen several openings renamed by people presumably trying to claim them as their own, and not just obscure little sidelines either but major ones like Scandinavian (center counter), phillodor (lions defence), c3 Sicilian (alapin), svesnikov (pelikan), modern (sniper)

Which are you classing as the old name and which the new?

The Centre Counter was the British name for the sequence 1. e4 d5 in my youth and the Pelikan a name for the sequence 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 e5.

Alapin was a master of over a hundred years ago, so I'm not sure when his name was first attached to the sequence 1. e4 c5 2. c3.

I'd agree that the "Sniper" and "Lion" are modern inventions, in part promoted by authors keen to sell books about their ideas.

The sequence 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 c5 3. d5 b5 has been named after both a river in Russia and an American player. Perhaps naming it after the river has regained popularity after the player's death.

[AlanLlewellyn]

i was told by the bible of chess Batsford Chess Openings 2, that 1 g3 was the benko-Larsen opening and 1 b3 the nimzo-larsen and 1 b4 the orangutan (although it mentions sokolsky). Imagine my surprise as a beginner when people i talked to in chess didnt know what i was talking about when i mentioned i those names.

Another funny story , I really thought BCO 2 was the only place to find the right moves to play and i honestly said after a game started unusual( but playable), i said the immortal line 'he went wrong on move 2' after he beat me.