Magnus will not defend his title

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Gerard Killoran
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Re: Magnus will not defend his title

Post by Gerard Killoran » Thu Jul 21, 2022 1:25 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 12:42 pm
Gerard Killoran wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 12:37 pm
Apart from boxing, which other sport decides its world champion in this way?
Darts and snooker are two obvious examples.
These are knock-out tournaments where the reigning champion starts on the same level as all the other contenders. He or she is not seeded into the final to fight the last person standing.

Ian Thompson
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Re: Magnus will not defend his title

Post by Ian Thompson » Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:47 pm

Gerard Killoran wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 1:25 pm
Ian Thompson wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 12:42 pm
Gerard Killoran wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 12:37 pm
Apart from boxing, which other sport decides its world champion in this way?
Darts and snooker are two obvious examples.
These are knock-out tournaments where the reigning champion starts on the same level as all the other contenders. He or she is not seeded into the final to fight the last person standing.
In that case I offer the America's Cup, which makes chess seem pretty fair to the challenger in comparison - see https://www.boatinternational.com/yacht ... cup--28195

"It could also make a claim to be the most unfair competition in all sport, because the winner (the ‘Defender’) gets to choose the venue for the next edition, and in large part sets the rules of engagement.

Part of the mystery and allure of the America's Cup is that it is not contested on a level playing field, literally or metaphorically. The deck is skewed heavily in favour of the Defender, who is guaranteed a place in the final match."

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MJMcCready
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Re: Magnus will not defend his title

Post by MJMcCready » Fri Jul 22, 2022 10:43 am

I don't, I was asking if anyone thought it was.

Steven DuCharme
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Re: Magnus will not defend his title

Post by Steven DuCharme » Fri Jul 22, 2022 4:38 pm

In scarier news I will never quit chess
I float like a pawn island and sting like an ignored knight :mrgreen:

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MJMcCready
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Re: Magnus will not defend his title

Post by MJMcCready » Sun Jul 24, 2022 1:01 pm

Mike Gunn wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 12:22 pm
I think Magnus's withdrawal will be good if it leads to going back to a 3 year cycle and doing away with the rapid/ blitz tiebreaks. Magnus has clearly been the WC on merit but his WC matches have been less interesting/ entertaining/ tense than many in the past. We could get a couple of interesting matches now while FIDE sorts itself out.
Inclined to agree with you there, the last match was far too one-sided also, I wasn't looking forwards to a repeat of that.

Paul Habershon
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Re: Magnus will not defend his title

Post by Paul Habershon » Sun Jul 24, 2022 1:58 pm

I have no problem with Magnus quitting. The next World Champion will still be a mighty strong player, worthy of enjoying the title, and who's to say he wouldn't have beaten Magnus? So what if Magnus's rating remains higher? When someone like Mark Selby wins the snooker, we probably still think O'Sullivan is the best player whether he has been beaten earlier or not even taken part. It's still Selby, though, with his name permanently on the honours board. Two clichés come to mind: 1) No player is bigger than the World Championship; 2) You've got to be in it to win it.

The British Chess Championship has quite a history of not being contested by the best player(s), but we don't stop holding it and, I hope, still celebrate the success of the winner.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Magnus will not defend his title

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Sun Jul 24, 2022 4:05 pm

Yes, but that's not traditionally the case with chess is it.

The FIDE world titles after the 1993 split lacked credibility precisely because their holders were often some way from the best in the world.
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MJMcCready
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Re: Magnus will not defend his title

Post by MJMcCready » Sun Jul 24, 2022 5:20 pm

Matt Mackenzie wrote:
Sun Jul 24, 2022 4:05 pm
Yes, but that's not traditionally the case with chess is it.

The FIDE world titles after the 1993 split lacked credibility precisely because their holders were often some way from the best in the world.
It certainly didn't help when Khalifmann even said he knew he wasn't the best in the world but then he wasn't even in the top 20 in terms of rating points, 44th if I remember rightly. At least he was honest I suppose.

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MJMcCready
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Re: Magnus will not defend his title

Post by MJMcCready » Sun Jul 24, 2022 5:26 pm

Paul Habershon wrote:
Sun Jul 24, 2022 1:58 pm
I have no problem with Magnus quitting. The next World Champion will still be a mighty strong player, worthy of enjoying the title, and who's to say he wouldn't have beaten Magnus? So what if Magnus's rating remains higher? When someone like Mark Selby wins the snooker, we probably still think O'Sullivan is the best player whether he has been beaten earlier or not even taken part. It's still Selby, though, with his name permanently on the honours board. Two clichés come to mind: 1) No player is bigger than the World Championship; 2) You've got to be in it to win it.

The British Chess Championship has quite a history of not being contested by the best player(s), but we don't stop holding it and, I hope, still celebrate the success of the winner.
Hi Paul, yes its hard to know which has the greater credence the title or the rating. I have a feeling that when Magnus's rating starts dropping (whenever that may be, probably not anytime soon) he may re-enter the cycle. If it becomes the case that the current world champion also has a higher rating than him, I feel quite sure we will see him as a challenger. in the longer interview here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVzOdnGz2WM&t=1s he seems to suggest its quite possible. Perhaps the expression 'Heavy lies the crown' has something to do with it.

In terms of prospects, Nepo V Liren must surely be closer thus more enticing. Hard one to call.
Last edited by MJMcCready on Mon Jul 25, 2022 6:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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MJMcCready
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Re: Magnus will not defend his title

Post by MJMcCready » Sun Jul 24, 2022 5:33 pm

Matt Mackenzie wrote:
Sun Jul 24, 2022 4:05 pm
Yes, but that's not traditionally the case with chess is it.

The FIDE world titles after the 1993 split lacked credibility precisely because their holders were often some way from the best in the world.
And because the BBC backed Nigel Short, they kept trying to put Campomanes down (who was good at doing that by himself and was without any need of outside help) by asking him which one had the better payers knowingly. So in England perhaps it lacked more credibility than in some countries.

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Joey Stewart
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Re: Magnus will not defend his title

Post by Joey Stewart » Sun Jul 24, 2022 5:53 pm

Actually, another big negative consequence of this is Magnus has denied his eventual vanquisher the huge amount of prestige and publicity it would surely have brought had they actually beaten him - even if Nepo does now become world champion he will always be living under a cloud and thought of as a pretender though no fault of his own as he could well have won it on merit against a demotivated unprepared Magnus.
Lose one queen and it is a disaster, Lose 1000 queens and it is just a statistic.

Nick Ivell
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Re: Magnus will not defend his title

Post by Nick Ivell » Sun Jul 24, 2022 6:03 pm

Is not the underlying reason fairly transparent?

Magnus cannot be bothered working on his openings. I have a certain sympathy with this reluctance.

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Re: Magnus will not defend his title

Post by NickFaulks » Mon Jul 25, 2022 1:06 am

Nick Ivell wrote:
Sun Jul 24, 2022 6:03 pm
Is not the underlying reason fairly transparent?

Magnus cannot be bothered working on his openings. I have a certain sympathy with this reluctance.
Of course, but that isn't exciting enough for some people.
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MJMcCready
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Re: Magnus will not defend his title

Post by MJMcCready » Mon Jul 25, 2022 6:03 am

Nepo - Liren should be an interesting match, probably a lot more interesting than Carlsen - Nepo 2