Spare Queens

[Simon Rogers]

Hi all.
Can anyone help please?
We are looking to purchase a number of white and black queens (preferably the standard size used for tournaments) for our club.
Many thanks, Simon.

[Nick Burrows]

I seem to remember that Chess & Bridge sell individual pieces

[Matt Mackenzie]

What's wrong with the good old upturned rook?

[Joey Stewart]

Some people gets funny about upturned rooks, even though it's literally the only reason anyone would ever turn a rook on its head like that, I've seen players screwed out of won games before by an opponent claiming an "illegal" move the moment the upturned rook moves along a diagonal and the arbiter upholding it...

[Kevin Thurlow]

"I've seen players screwed out of won games before by an opponent claiming an "illegal" move the moment the upturned rook moves along a diagonal and the arbiter upholding it..."

possibly because it is illegal?

[Roger de Coverly]

Some people gets funny about upturned rooks,

Mostly arbiters iI would suggest,

Can anyone recall when they first became obsessive about this? Perhaps it was when sensory boards became available, the point being that they wouldn't work with an upturned rook,

Regarding the original question; in a club context why there wouldn't there always be spare sets available from which a queen may be borrowed?

[Alex McFarlane]

In answer to Roger's question.

It was enforced on arbiters on the whole. But, I now agree with it having originally felt it was a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

I witnessed two occasions before this came into force where the player with the upturned rook forgot it was a queen and stalemated his opponent.

One accepted his stupidity. The other, of course, blamed the arbiter for not supplying a spare queen despite the sets on either side not being in use and the fact he could have got one without leaving his seat. His original reaction was to lodge a protest. When told of the fee involved, he had something more legitimate to complain about.

Although sensory boards would have been available at the time of the change to the Laws, I don't think it had to do with that. That would have been a 'bonus'. I believe the Chairman of the FIDE Rules Commission had experienced a situation similar to the one I have described above and decided that the Laws should be changed to avoid it happening again.

[Andy McCulloch]

About a decade ago, I persuaded my club committee to invest in new boards and sets. The new sets had two queens. To my surprise many players disliked the second queens and did not want them on the table. Some went to the extent of returning them to the equipment box. I frequently had to sort them out and return the second queen to all sets.

[Simon Rogers]

We are looking for at least 8 queens of each colour.
At our home games we place queens next to each board.
The reason being is something happened in my game against a Lytham player in the away league match last November.
I was black with a 1705 grade and my opponent grade was 2080. The time limit in the Blackpool & Fylde League is 35 moves in 1 hour 15 minutes with an extra 15 minutes allegro.
On move 31, I converted a second Queen, as I had two rooks on the board already, I had to go searching around the room for a queen not in use.
My opponent made the time control with 10 seconds remaining on his clock. I touched my piece to make a capture on move 35 and my opponent said I had lost on time.
As a result of losing my game, the team lost the match instead of winning it.
My opponent said if I had made the time control, he would have resigned as I had an extra queen.

[Ian Thompson]

On move 31, I converted a second Queen, as I had two rooks on the board already, I had to go searching around the room for a queen not in use.
My opponent made the time control with 10 seconds remaining on his clock. I touched my piece to make a capture on move 35 and my opponent said I had lost on time.

If you're saying you lost on time because you wasted some time finding a second queen, then you needn't have done. The rules allow you to stop the clock in that situation.

[Geoff Chandler]

What's wrong with the good old upturned rook?

It use to be theory.

[Christopher Kreuzer]

Yes, I was about to say, people should never forget they can stop the clock to make legitimate enquries, and if any discussion is needed. This is particularly relevant when about to make a 10.3 claim (I can't even now remember the right numbering since that got dropped from the Rules - was it 10.2?), as you generally needed to do this in good time and give the arbiter enough time to come to the board and observe the play before a flag falls - at which point they render their verdict (generally on whether someone was making an effort to win). Ah, the good old days! Not sure if anyone has ever tried to stop the clock to go to the toilet... but to get an extra queen is a standard (though often forgotten or not known) reason for stopping the clock.

Can anyone explain the picture Geoff posted? Am I missing an obvious joke there?

(EDIT: Oh, I get it now. That is a perpetual, where one queen can get a draw against two.)

[Simon Rogers]

On move 31, I converted a second Queen, as I had two rooks on the board already, I had to go searching around the room for a queen not in use.
My opponent made the time control with 10 seconds remaining on his clock. I touched my piece to make a capture on move 35 and my opponent said I had lost on time.

If you're saying you lost on time because you wasted some time finding a second queen, then you needn't have done. The rules allow you to stop the clock in that situation.

There was confusion after the game as to the rules, also it was a digital clock and people didn't know how to pause it.
I was also told that because I was queening the pawn it was my responsibility to place the pawn with a queen as you can't request a queen. Two Lytham players stood next to the board and could easily have got a queen for me in preparation.
There is a write up about it in the Fixtures section on the Blackpool & Fylde League website dated Thursday 4th November 2021.
Lytham 1 v Poulton 1.
https://ecflms.org.uk/lms/node/14087/home

[Christopher Kreuzer]

There was confusion after the game as to the rules, also it was a digital clock and people didn't know how to pause it.

Has your club made sure all its players now know how to (at least) pause a digital clock? Do you now know how to pause a digital clock? I had this happen to me once (not a loss on time, but needing to stop the clock for another reason). I made sure after that that I always knew how to stop a digital clock before starting play, especially if it was a model I was not familiar with.

I was also told that because I was queening the pawn it was my responsibility to place the pawn with a queen as you can't request a queen. Two Lytham players stood next to the board and could easily have got a queen for me in preparation.

There is no obligation for them to do so, and I would not have expected that. It would be more normal for one of your team-mates to do so. However, in certain circumstances, them doing so could be seen as a prompt to you, as a suggestion that you should be trying to promote a pawn instead of (say) playing directly for mate. (This doesn't even begin to get into the pitfalls around under-promotion.) I think most arbiters (and I know this was an evening league game) would say that no spectators or team-mates should be doing anything like providing promotion material unprompted.

[The other common mistake is to push the pawn to the promotion square and let go (and sometimes press the clock at this point while loudly declaring "QUEEN!") - I believe some complicated process of removing the pawn in the same motion, and putting the queen on the square, is needed, and you absolutely must not press the clock until the new queen is present! Watching players unaware of this trying to work out the etiquette here can be amusing, but really all new players should be taught this, but there is so much etiquette that it mostly just gets picked up as part of experience over time.]

I think it is acceptable to ask someone to get a spare queen for you. It is also acceptable for you to go and get a spare queen during your opponent's move, or to anticipate the need several moves earlier. Beware of opponents who may find it disrespectful that you have flagged up your intention to promote a pawn!

There is a write up about it in the Fixtures section on the Blackpool & Fylde League website dated Thursday 4th November 2021.
Lytham 1 v Poulton 1.
https://ecflms.org.uk/lms/node/14087/home

Direct link:

https://ecflms.org.uk/lms/node/80103

From the sound of it, you played well and got a moral win at least, even if not an actual one!

[Brian Valentine]

The FIDE Laws of chess seem to cover this situation:
6.11.2
A player may stop the chessclock only in order to seek the arbiter’s assistance, for example when promotion has taken place and the piece required is not available.