ECF Bans Russians

[Joseph Conlon]

I expect that any peace agreement (however pragmatic and "lesser evil" it might well be) would lead to sanctions at least being eased against Russia before too long. We are right, however, to be making it clear that a full-scale invasion of Ukraine with the intent of (at best) reducing it to a satellite state in the manner of Belarus is completely unacceptable. And act accordingly, including in chess matters (something many Russians care about, indeed more so than in this country)

On practical matters, one can donate directly to the civil and military parts of Ukrainian society (e.g. links via https://ukrainianinstitute.org.uk/russi ... krainians/ ) - which gives direct help where it is most needed.

But banning children living in the UK from participating in local U1600 rapidplays becaue they are Russian? This sort of stuff feeds a narrative that it is not Putin and Putin's invasion of Ukraine we oppose, but the entire idea of Russia - and the person who benefits most from such a narrative is Putin.

[JustinHorton]

It's still not racism, because every country currently blowing up a neighbour with thermobaric bombs is still being treated the same regardless of their ethnicity

Amazing and entire confusion here between nation, government, ethnicity and individuals

. If the sanctions may lead to Putin being replaced, why would we want to "skip" them?

Because replacing a foreign head of state is not a proper purpose of sanctions, nor is it the basis on which those sanctions have been represented to us.

[LawrenceCooper]

Interview with Alexander Grischuk:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6iFgQ7INgw

[John Townsend]

Justin, I didn't say that was the main objective of the sanctions, but it is something we might benefit from. By "skipping" the sanctions, as you seem to advocate, we would also miss out on their declared (or, in your eyes, legitimate) objectives, when the sanctions are already hitting Russia's economy hard.

[JustinHorton]

By "skipping" the sanctions, as you seem to advocate

Sorry, where are you getting this from and precisely which sanctions are you referring to?

I didn't say that was the main objective of the sanctions, but it is something we might benefit from

"Benefit from" is neither here nor there, is it?

[John Townsend]

Justin, I am getting it from here:

"Because replacing a foreign head of state is not a proper purpose of sanctions, nor is it the basis on which those sanctions have been represented to us."

You gave this as the reason for "skipping" the sanctions.

[Kevin Thurlow]

Correspondence Chess organizations are due to discuss the matter. I am playing an event including representatives of Ukraine and Russia. ICCF have frozen all games involving Ukrainians for the next month or so, but I notice that the Russian is suddenly playing very quickly, which makes me wonder if he is trying to finish some games naturally before he gets banned. Or maybe, all the moves are obvious to him...

[JustinHorton]

Justin, I am getting it from here:

"Because replacing a foreign head of state is not a proper purpose of sanctions, nor is it the basis on which those sanctions have been represented to us."

You gave this as the reason for "skipping" the sanctions.

Sorry John but you're making no sense at all

[Chris Rice]

4ncl following suit which I guess will have more significance than Frome:

"The 4NCL will, in line with ECF and ECU policy, not allow players with a RUS or BLR country identification to participate after 14 March, 2022. Such players can change their affiliation to FID free of charge by contacting FIDE. Currently that change will be effective until 31 May and might apply after then too if necessary.
Captains and affected players are advised to monitor the situation with regard to future participation."

[Chris Goodall]

Chris Goodall wrote:

"I'm trying to follow this argument - we should sanction ordinary Russians because then they'll replace Putin, but we shouldn't worry about it backfiring because they wouldn't have replaced Putin anyway?

Could we not therefore skip the step where we sanction the ordinary Russians?"

I don't follow Chris's logic here. If the sanctions may lead to Putin being replaced, why would we want to "skip" them?

We are talking about selecting Russians virtually at random and slightly annoying them. Ordinary Russians with, crucially, neither any prospect of gaining power for themselves by deposing Putin, nor any need to distance themselves from a sinking ship.

We can't be simultaneously so close to removing Putin that this slight annoyance will stir the people to revolution, and so far away from removing Putin that we've got nothing to lose if it accidentally has the opposite effect.

[John Townsend]

Chris, if we worried too much about Russian reaction, we would never take any measures in response to their aggression. The West has imposed a wide range of sanctions, with various objectives. The economic sanctions are hitting the Russian economy hard: companies are avoiding operating in Russia, the ruble has been slaughtered, stockmarkets are closed and Russia seems about to default on debts ...

[NickFaulks]

and Russia seems about to default on debts ...

Can someone explain to me why this is bad news for Russia, rather than for those in the West who have foolishly lent vast sums to Russia and now aren't going to get their money back?

[Kevin Thurlow]

Private Eye suggests that Ernst and Young, PWC etc will continue to secretly handle Russian money, so sanctions may not be very effective...

[John Townsend]

I'm no expert, but, as an indicator of economic health, I would imagine defaulting would be a negative development for Russia. Won't they also find it harder to borrow in future? Of course, it would be bad news for bond holders, as Nick points out.

[JustinHorton]

Also bad news for ordinary Russians if their economy collapses of course