'But I am a Ukrainian' by Raymond Keene

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Geoff Chandler
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'But I am a Ukrainian' by Raymond Keene

Post by Geoff Chandler » Sat Mar 05, 2022 9:45 pm


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JustinHorton
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Re: 'But I am a Ukrainian' by Raymond Keene

Post by JustinHorton » Sat Mar 05, 2022 11:16 pm

It's not even worth clicking on Geoff, it's just the usual overheated and recycled rubbish. Stop trying to resurrect the tawdry old fraud.
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Rich Wiltshir
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Re: 'But I am a Ukrainian' by Raymond Keene

Post by Rich Wiltshir » Sat Mar 05, 2022 11:36 pm

Key words: "I am"

David Sedgwick
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Re: 'But I am a Ukrainian' by Raymond Keene

Post by David Sedgwick » Sun Mar 06, 2022 9:51 am

JustinHorton wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 11:16 pm
It's not even worth clicking on Geoff, it's just the usual overheated and recycled rubbish. Stop trying to resurrect the tawdry old fraud.
You clicked on the piece and read it, presumably?

Kasparov's comments, mentioned by RDK, are well worth reading.

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JustinHorton
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Re: 'But I am a Ukrainian' by Raymond Keene

Post by JustinHorton » Sun Mar 06, 2022 11:23 am

They're not really, and "Ray writes about comments already see by millions" is not a particularly persuasive reason for wasting any time on the old fraud.
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"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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Geoff Chandler
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Re: 'But I am a Ukrainian' by Raymond Keene

Post by Geoff Chandler » Sun Mar 06, 2022 11:31 am

JustinHorton wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 11:16 pm
...it's just the usual overheated and recycled rubbish.
It is a comment on chess in a General Chat thread and therefore valid.

I thought this one was good and informative, even allowing for the out of print book plug.
I fail to see how it could be recycled rubbish as the Ukrainian invasion is only two weeks old.

Maybe his reminisces about Leonard Stein have appeared somewhere before but
I have never seen the Kotov - Stein exchange that led to the title of the piece.

Paul Cooksey
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Re: 'But I am a Ukrainian' by Raymond Keene

Post by Paul Cooksey » Sun Mar 06, 2022 11:56 am

I'm trying not to comment on current events. But I would be interested to know if the Stein/ Kotov story is new.

My understanding - which may well be wrong and is one reason why I am interested - was that Soviet was not a synonym for Russian at that time. I am reminded of Petrosian's famous "Abroad, they call us all Russians. I am a Soviet Armenian.".

If Kotov had said "Russian school" - attacking chess in the Chigorin style - Steins remark would make sense. I associate Soviet school with professionalism and Botvinnik's legacy. Russian school seems more obvious in describing Stein, although I suppose both apply.

Of course anyone relating a conversation from so long ago, possibly in a language they are not themselves fluent in, might make a mistake. So interesting if it was published closer to the time.

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JustinHorton
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Re: 'But I am a Ukrainian' by Raymond Keene

Post by JustinHorton » Sun Mar 06, 2022 11:59 am

Geoff Chandler wrote:
Sun Mar 06, 2022 11:31 am
I fail to see how it could be recycled rubbish as the Ukrainian invasion is only two weeks old.
Amazing
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

Roger de Coverly
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Re: 'But I am a Ukrainian' by Raymond Keene

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Mar 06, 2022 12:52 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote:
Sun Mar 06, 2022 11:56 am

My understanding - which may well be wrong and is one reason why I am interested - was that Soviet was not a synonym for Russian at that time
In Russia or the Soviet Union perhaps, but outside, Russian or Russia was frequently used when Soviet or Soviet Union was meant. That's much the same as when English or England is used as proxy for British or Britain.

Bob Kane
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Re: 'But I am a Ukrainian' by Raymond Keene

Post by Bob Kane » Sun Mar 06, 2022 1:13 pm

Excellent topical article.

NickFaulks
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Re: 'But I am a Ukrainian' by Raymond Keene

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Mar 06, 2022 1:16 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 11:16 pm
it's just the usual overheated and recycled rubbish
Are you referring to RDK's own input, or to GK's comments on geopolitics? Could apply to either.
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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: 'But I am a Ukrainian' by Raymond Keene

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Sun Mar 06, 2022 4:21 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote:
Sun Mar 06, 2022 11:56 am
I'm trying not to comment on current events. But I would be interested to know if the Stein/ Kotov story is new.
I don't know the answer to that, but can perhaps make an educated guess.
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