Next English GM

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Joey Stewart
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Next English GM

Post by Joey Stewart » Thu Dec 09, 2021 1:29 am

The post earlier today about saddler getting to the number 1 spot in England got me thinking, it feels like ages since we last had anyone get the GM title - possibly as long back as when Jonathan Hawkins got his.

I wondered who might be the next to get the big one since there are lots of up and coming players who have for one reason or another all missed it- after a great British you would think Marcus Harvey probably but he has still not even got an IM title despite playing at Level equal to or above that, so unless he is allowed to skip the IM title it might still be a few years.
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Next English GM

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Dec 09, 2021 1:40 am

Joey Stewart wrote:
Thu Dec 09, 2021 1:29 am
The post earlier today about saddler getting to the number 1 spot in England got me thinking,it feels like ages since we last had anyone
England's performance at the European Championship in 2021 was forgettable but it did include Ravi Haria gaining the 2 or 3 Elo points he needed to reach 2500 and thus gain the title. This was after a series of Norms over the summer. Fernandez was the other player to become a GM relatively recently. Admittedly he's mostly been in Australia since gaining the title.

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MJMcCready
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Re: Next English GM

Post by MJMcCready » Thu Dec 09, 2021 8:03 am

So England is not likely to be the force it has been for a few decades now in the not too distant future?

NickFaulks
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Re: Next English GM

Post by NickFaulks » Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:03 am

Joey Stewart wrote:
Thu Dec 09, 2021 1:29 am
so unless he is allowed to skip the IM title
I cannot even guess what that might mean.
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Ian Thompson
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Re: Next English GM

Post by Ian Thompson » Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:20 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:03 am
Joey Stewart wrote:
Thu Dec 09, 2021 1:29 am
so unless he is allowed to skip the IM title
I cannot even guess what that might mean.
I would suggest a mistaken belief that either:
  • You can't become a GM without first being an IM
  • That a GM norm that is used to claim an IM title can't also subsequently be used to claim a GM title

Matt Bridgeman
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Re: Next English GM

Post by Matt Bridgeman » Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:33 am

Marcus Harvey I believe is entirely self-coached and possibly always has been. Out of interest are there many GMs who avoided the years of expensive chess coaching and took the DIY approach?

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Re: Next English GM

Post by LawrenceCooper » Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:40 am

Joey Stewart wrote:
Thu Dec 09, 2021 1:29 am
The post earlier today about saddler getting to the number 1 spot in England got me thinking, it feels like ages since we last had anyone get the GM title - possibly as long back as when Jonathan Hawkins got his.

I wondered who might be the next to get the big one since there are lots of up and coming players who have for one reason or another all missed it- after a great British you would think Marcus Harvey probably but he has still not even got an IM title despite playing at Level equal to or above that, so unless he is allowed to skip the IM title it might still be a few years.
Marcus had his IM title application approved by FIDE, see the bottom of his FIDE profile: https://ratings.fide.com/profile/400092 I think it's about 60 days from the award before he officially becomes an IM in terms of opponents playing him.

Ravi Haria has a GM title application submitted to FIDE.

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John Upham
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Re: Next English GM

Post by John Upham » Thu Dec 09, 2021 10:01 am

In 2021 there have been four FIDE playing titles awarded to English players:

Peter Markland (FM)
Richard McMichael (FM)
Ravi Haria (GM: subject to ratification)
Marcus Harvey (IM: subject to ratification)

In 2017 we had

Daniel Fernandez (GM)

In 2014 we had

Jonathan Hawkins (GM)

in 2009 we had

Stephen Gordon (GM)

So, four GMs in twelve years.
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Chris Goodall
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Re: Next English GM

Post by Chris Goodall » Thu Dec 09, 2021 4:00 pm

MJMcCready wrote:
Thu Dec 09, 2021 8:03 am
So England is not likely to be the force it has been for a few decades now in the not too distant future?
Not necessarily, everyone could have realised that the GM title is an expensive piece of paper, the main purpose of which is to assist other people in buying the same piece of paper.
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John Upham
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Re: Next English GM

Post by John Upham » Thu Dec 09, 2021 4:45 pm

Between 1976 and 1985 there were nine English GMs making it one per annum on average.
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Next English GM

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Dec 09, 2021 5:01 pm

John Upham wrote:
Thu Dec 09, 2021 10:01 am

in 2009 we had

Stephen Gordon (GM)

So, four GMs in twelve years.
David Howell and Gawain Jones were 2007.

I think there were a number in the years between 2000 and 2008. Nick Pert and Jonathan Parker were 2001, Matthew Turner (now SCO) 2002

Danny Gormally was 2005 and Simon Williams 2008.

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MJMcCready
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Re: Next English GM

Post by MJMcCready » Thu Dec 09, 2021 5:04 pm

Who's better, an IM rated 2505 or a GM rated 2504?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Next English GM

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Dec 09, 2021 5:06 pm

Matt Bridgeman wrote:
Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:33 am
Out of interest are there many GMs who avoided the years of expensive chess coaching and took the DIY approach?
I would have thought all the British GMs were to a greater or lesser extent self taught. If it was that easy to become a GM by taking a training course there would be a lot more of them.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Next English GM

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Dec 09, 2021 5:10 pm

MJMcCready wrote:
Thu Dec 09, 2021 5:04 pm
Who's better, an IM rated 2505 or a GM rated 2504?
In terms of playing strength as demonstrated by results they are identical. You need a gap of 40 Elo points or more to say with some degree of certainty who was the better player. In terms of invitations to Norm tournaments a GM is more valuable than an IM.

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MJMcCready
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Re: Next English GM

Post by MJMcCready » Thu Dec 09, 2021 5:15 pm

But does the presence of GMs increase the entry level of tournaments, generally speaking. As is so often claimed?