Next English GM

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Next English GM

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Mon Jan 31, 2022 1:55 pm

Jonathan Rogers wrote:
Sun Jan 30, 2022 12:30 pm
I don't know - I'd like to know the ages of McNab, Levitt, Kosten, Davies, Arkell, maybe even Hebden, at the time they made their GM titles
I really should have formally published the collated data I published on the forum many years ago, as that has the answer to what you are asking:

Timeline of British Isles titles (1950-2010) (September 2010)

Ages when British Isles titles obtained (June 2011)

FIDE titles achieved by British Isles players since 2010 (May 2014)

As you will see, I tried to carefully define 'British Isles' to ensure the scope was clear. i.e. Including English, Scottish, Welsh, Irish and other relevant FIDE federation codes.

However, despite trying to keep the list updated, it proved difficult to keep it going, and the various "next GM" threads have been where the updates have tended to appear, though I see the most recent update to the 'FIDE titles achieved by British Isles players since 2010' thread was in 2021, so maybe an update is needed there for 2022 if someone is keeping track?

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John Upham
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Re: Next English GM

Post by John Upham » Mon Jan 31, 2022 2:20 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Mon Jan 31, 2022 1:55 pm
so maybe an update is needed there for 2022 if someone is keeping track?
Scroll to the foot of

https://britishchessnews.com/british-fi ... e-holders/

for such a location.
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LawrenceCooper
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Re: Next English GM

Post by LawrenceCooper » Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:49 pm

John Upham wrote:
Mon Jan 31, 2022 2:20 pm
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Mon Jan 31, 2022 1:55 pm
so maybe an update is needed there for 2022 if someone is keeping track?
Scroll to the foot of

https://britishchessnews.com/british-fi ... e-holders/

for such a location.
That's a great list. You can add my IO in 2011 and FA in 2016 if you want. My IM norm certificate says 2000 (final norm was in 1999) albeit the FIDE rating website says 2001.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Next English GM

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:52 pm

Thank you John. It is great that you have wider coverage of the different titles. It is always good to have such information in several places (neither your site nor this one will be around forever, though hopefully copies will be archived for, as the phrase goes, 'future historians'!) :D (Yes, I know. Real publication in print or properly archived digital format is best.)

Spotted a typo:

Under 2011: "Alex McFarlane (2011)".

You also switch between "GM" and "IGM".

Heh. The 'blank' years are: 1956, 1963, 1971 and 1979.

I wonder if there really were no British titles at all awarded in those years?

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Next English GM

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:17 pm

I got round to an update here.

John, I think you have Thomas Hinks-Edwards (IM, 2011) missing from your list (can someone remind me how to look up when he switched federation to CZE?) - do you include those who have switched away from 'British' FIDE federation codes? I see you include some that switch to ENG (like Zivile Sarakauskiene (WIM), who switched from LTU to ENG in 2012).

Interesting that some of the history of Tom Hinks-Edwards and his journey to the IM title can be gleaned from this forum, see: here (New English IM, 2009, reported by John Saunders); and here (explaining the delay in the title ratification, with a key role played by Stewart Reuben).

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John Upham
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Re: Next English GM

Post by John Upham » Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:29 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote:
Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:49 pm
That's a great list. You can add my IO in 2011 and FA in 2016 if you want. My IM norm certificate says 2000 (final norm was in 1999) albeit the FIDE rating website says 2001.
Thanks Lawrence. I've added your titles.
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John Upham
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Re: Next English GM

Post by John Upham » Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:31 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:52 pm
Thank you John. It is great that you have wider coverage of the different titles. It is always good to have such information in several places (neither your site nor this one will be around forever, though hopefully copies will be archived for, as the phrase goes, 'future historians'!) :D (Yes, I know. Real publication in print or properly archived digital format is best.)

Spotted a typo:

Under 2011: "Alex McFarlane (2011)".

You also switch between "GM" and "IGM".

Heh. The 'blank' years are: 1956, 1963, 1971 and 1979.

I wonder if there really were no British titles at all awarded in those years?

See https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://b ... snews.com/

Typo corrected.

Please find items for the currently blank years.

The tricky titles are things such as IJ (now IA) and the more esoteric titles.

I'm hoping to obtain the FIDE Golden Books but they are not cheap.
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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Next English GM

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:39 pm

John Upham wrote:
Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:31 pm
I'm hoping to obtain the FIDE Golden Books but they are not cheap.
That's a great comment! :D

I found the bit of the FIDE website that deals with federation transfers/switches:

https://ratings.fide.com/transfers.phtml

Only goes back to 2000. As you say, details before that are tricky to ascertain!

I have a feeling Tom Hinks-Edwards transferred from ENG to CZE before his title was ratified. So that might be one of those ones where the norms were achieved under one federation, but title ratification under another one? Or maybe even norms under two different codes (which must be a relatively common scenario).

Ah, found it:

403938 Hinks-Edwards, Thomas R J CZE ENG 2011-08-04 2011-08-04
Last FIDE event: no FIDE event under ENG flag
Citizenship ENG
Date of eligibility
to participatein the FIDE events under the new flag 2011-08-05
Transfer fee Euro 2000
Date starting from which a player
can represent the new federation fee free 2012-08-05

So the answer is: title ratified in February 2011, federation switch took place in August 2011. So Tom Hinks-Edwards definitely should be in any list of British title holders (if you are including those who have switched away, I see Maxim Devereaux, to use one example, is not there, so maybe your list is meant to be current ones only,in which case you will need to keep a beady eye out for federation code changes!).

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John Upham
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Re: Next English GM

Post by John Upham » Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:05 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:39 pm
I see Maxim Devereaux, to use one example, is not there,
IM Maxim Leo Devereaux is now known as IM Maxim Barth Stanford and is registered with the Norwegian Federation
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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Next English GM

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:12 pm

John Upham wrote:
Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:05 pm
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:39 pm
I see Maxim Devereaux, to use one example, is not there,
IM Maxim Leo Devereaux is now known as IM Maxim Barth Stanford and is registered with the Norwegian Federation
Difficult to keep up with the changes sometimes!

https://twitter.com/MaxDevNorge

Twitter handle of @MaxDevNorge

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Next English GM

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:37 pm

I became FIDE Arbiter in 2015

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John Upham
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Re: Next English GM

Post by John Upham » Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:49 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:37 pm
I became FIDE Arbiter in 2015
Thanks Kevin.

Now added.
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Ian Thompson
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Re: Next English GM

Post by Ian Thompson » Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:35 am

You can get all the ICCF titles from https://www.iccf.com/RatingList.aspx. There are only 104 England players with (W)IM titles or higher to include. :)

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John Upham
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Re: Next English GM

Post by John Upham » Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:57 am

Ian Thompson wrote:
Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:35 am
You can get all the ICCF titles from https://www.iccf.com/RatingList.aspx. There are only 104 England players with (W)IM titles or higher to include. :)
Thanks Ian. How may I discover when those ICCF titles were awarded?
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Ian Thompson
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Re: Next English GM

Post by Ian Thompson » Tue Feb 01, 2022 10:30 am

John Upham wrote:
Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:57 am
Ian Thompson wrote:
Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:35 am
You can get all the ICCF titles from https://www.iccf.com/RatingList.aspx. There are only 104 England players with (W)IM titles or higher to include. :)
Thanks Ian. How may I discover when those ICCF titles were awarded?
Easily, but perhaps not quickly, by clicking on the ICCF ID link for each player. That will take you to the player's details. Here's mine, for example - https://www.iccf.com/player?id=210939.