Next English GM

[John Upham]

I have added FM Karl Bowden (November 2021)

https://britishchessnews.com/british-fi ... e-holders/ and am gradually complete all of our FIDE title holders.

I would add more FMs but am struggling to discover the year of their title.

fide.com is totally hopeless with this information :

https://ratings.fide.com/title_norms.ph ... ountry=ENG for example.

If you can help with details I will surely add them.

[NickFaulks]

fide.com is totally hopeless with this information :

https://ratings.fide.com/title_norms.ph ... ountry=ENG for example.

Why are you looking under norms for FM titles?

[Matt Bridgeman]

I have added FM Karl Bowden (November 2021)

https://britishchessnews.com/british-fi ... e-holders/ and am gradually complete all of our FIDE title holders.

I would add more FMs but am struggling to discover the year of their title.

fide.com is totally hopeless with this information :

https://ratings.fide.com/title_norms.ph ... ountry=ENG for example.

If you can help with details I will surely add them.

It would be good to add in the WCM’s. I don’t think there’s so many of them it would be onerous.

[Richard Bates]

I have added FM Karl Bowden (November 2021)

https://britishchessnews.com/british-fi ... e-holders/ and am gradually complete all of our FIDE title holders.

I would add more FMs but am struggling to discover the year of their title.

fide.com is totally hopeless with this information :

https://ratings.fide.com/title_norms.ph ... ountry=ENG for example.

If you can help with details I will surely add them.

The list seems a bit inconsistent over whether it aspires to be a British or English list.

[John Upham]

I have added FM Karl Bowden (November 2021)

https://britishchessnews.com/british-fi ... e-holders/ and am gradually complete all of our FIDE title holders.

I would add more FMs but am struggling to discover the year of their title.

fide.com is totally hopeless with this information :

https://ratings.fide.com/title_norms.ph ... ountry=ENG for example.

If you can help with details I will surely add them.

It would be good to add in the WCM’s. I don’t think there’s so many of them it would be onerous.

Thanks for volunteering to supply the list Matt: much appreciated.

[John Upham]

I have added FM Karl Bowden (November 2021)

https://britishchessnews.com/british-fi ... e-holders/ and am gradually complete all of our FIDE title holders.

I would add more FMs but am struggling to discover the year of their title.

fide.com is totally hopeless with this information :

https://ratings.fide.com/title_norms.ph ... ountry=ENG for example.

If you can help with details I will surely add them.

The list seems a bit inconsistent over whether it aspires to be a British or English list.

Yes, I completely agree. Incompleteness may lead to inconsistency for sure.

[John Upham]

/dev/null

[Jonathan Rogers]

Not if they still require the norms, but gaining 50 points is definitely possible.

Lets not forget that both Horner and Pigott became IM's around the age of 60!

I think the IM title is likely different in that respect. Not so difficult to be of the requisite standard earlier in life, then retire or otherwise comeback whilst still in good health. It is really an issue about GMs in particular and nowadays I struggle to think of anyone acquiring the title beyond 30. (It was probably different 30-40 years ago simply because of more stringent rules and fewer opportunities).

On the contrary my educated guess is that the large majority of U.K. GMs achieved their titles in their twenties. The nature of the old rules (title requirements needing to be met within a five year period) combined with most of potentially GM strength either getting the title very young or turning pro, made it quite likely that anyone who got the title did so relatively young.

The removal of time limits created the possibility of people getting titles (and this applies as much, if not more, to IMs as GMs) through “passage of time”.

I don't know - I'd like to know the ages of McNab, Levitt, Kosten, Davies, Arkell, maybe even Hebden, at the time they made their GM titles

[JustinHorton]

I'd like to know the ages of McNab, Levitt, Kosten, Davies, Arkell, maybe even Hebden, at the time they made their GM titles

All in their early* thirties save one, I believe

[* before 35, for the purpose of this posting]

[Mick Norris]

Keith was 34 I think , Nigel a year or two younger

[Matt Bridgeman]

I have added FM Karl Bowden (November 2021)

https://britishchessnews.com/british-fi ... e-holders/ and am gradually complete all of our FIDE title holders.

I would add more FMs but am struggling to discover the year of their title.

fide.com is totally hopeless with this information :

https://ratings.fide.com/title_norms.ph ... ountry=ENG for example.

If you can help with details I will surely add them.

It would be good to add in the WCM’s. I don’t think there’s so many of them it would be onerous.

Thanks for volunteering to supply the list Matt: much appreciated.

Err! Lol Well looking it up, I think the WCM titles started in 2002. For England, I’m guessing Dinah Norman might have been the first in the same year.
Anum Sheikh 2015 from a junior medal, and Zoe Varney 2021.

Wales have Venetia Sivarajasingam, Shayanna Sivarajasingam and Imogen Camp from a Woman’s Olympiad in 2016, and Lynda Smith 2012.

Haven’t spotted any Scottish WCM’s unless they are perhaps inactive.

Ireland have Gearoidin Ui Laighleis from 2008.

[Richard Bates]

I think the IM title is likely different in that respect. Not so difficult to be of the requisite standard earlier in life, then retire or otherwise comeback whilst still in good health. It is really an issue about GMs in particular and nowadays I struggle to think of anyone acquiring the title beyond 30. (It was probably different 30-40 years ago simply because of more stringent rules and fewer opportunities).

On the contrary my educated guess is that the large majority of U.K. GMs achieved their titles in their twenties. The nature of the old rules (title requirements needing to be met within a five year period) combined with most of potentially GM strength either getting the title very young or turning pro, made it quite likely that anyone who got the title did so relatively young.

The removal of time limits created the possibility of people getting titles (and this applies as much, if not more, to IMs as GMs) through “passage of time”.

I don't know - I'd like to know the ages of McNab, Levitt, Kosten, Davies, Arkell, maybe even Hebden, at the time they made their GM titles

Well you’ve basically named the lot! Which doesn’t exactly contradict “large majority”… Not sure about Levitt - I think he might have got the title post 30 on the basis that he should have actually been awarded in earlier)

[Jonathan Rogers]

But still we named quite a few! So I too can maintain my earlier assertion, that it used to be far from unusual to make the title over 30, for all sorts of reasons (and we might include among them the lack of databases in former times, such that people who had to work by themselves were really at a disadvantage). Now it is different. It is easier to become very strong at a young age as well as to fulfil the requirements, such that someone who has spent time in their twenties trying to do that and has still not made it is much less likely to suddenly become a GM in their thirties. No one is naming counter-examples (Hawkins, who hardly ever played abroad, could be said to have not done everything he could in his twenties to make the title).

[John Upham]

I don't know - I'd like to know the ages of McNab, Levitt, Kosten, Davies, Arkell, maybe even Hebden, at the time they made their GM titles

McNab: born 03-Feb-1961, GM in 1992 so 31 ish
Levitt: 03-Jun-1963, 1994 so 31 ish
Kosten: 24-Jul-1958, 1990 so 32 ish
Davies: 31-Jul-1960, 1993 so 33 ish
Arkell, 08-Jan-1961, 1995 so 34 ish
Hebden, 15-Feb-1958, 1992 so 34 ish

I would add John Shaw into the mix, 16-Oct-1968, 2006, 38

[LawrenceCooper]

Wales have Venetia Sivarajasingam, Shayanna Sivarajasingam and Imogen Camp from a Woman’s Olympiad in 2016

Their captain was very proud of their success