Reviving Grassroots Chess Is Just As Important As ‘Saving Your Federation’

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John Upham
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Reviving Grassroots Chess Is Just As Important As ‘Saving Your Federation’

Post by John Upham » Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:33 pm

Reviving Grassroots Chess Is Just As Important As ‘Saving Your Federation’

makes a series of thought provoking points (in my opinion at least).
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Matthew Turner
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Re: Reviving Grassroots Chess Is Just As Important As ‘Saving Your Federation’

Post by Matthew Turner » Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:46 pm

Here is the ECF's advice for clubs moving online

https://englishchessonline.org.uk/ecf-s ... ng-online/

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JustinHorton
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Re: Reviving Grassroots Chess Is Just As Important As ‘Saving Your Federation’

Post by JustinHorton » Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:17 pm

But it’s striking that the initiative is coming from Chess in Schools and Communities, an independent charity
...to which Tim is connected, something perhaps the piece should make clear.
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Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Reviving Grassroots Chess Is Just As Important As ‘Saving Your Federation’

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:21 pm

"...to which Tim is connected, something perhaps the piece should make clear."

Yes - especially as the disagreement about junior organization is (I believe) primarily about alleged conflicts of interest (although nobody seems to want to say that) and turf wars (as usual).

edited for typo

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Reviving Grassroots Chess Is Just As Important As ‘Saving Your Federation’

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:34 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:17 pm
But it’s striking that the initiative is coming from Chess in Schools and Communities, an independent charity
...to which Tim is connected, something perhaps the piece should make clear.
I would not regard CSC as especially independent of the ECF given that they have directors and officials in common. That's particularly where earlier in the piece the 4NCL is not regarded as independent of the ECF by virtue of sharing a CEO.

He does make a valid point that the ECF hasn't done very much to facilitate OTB chess, discouraging attempts to interpret regulations in a manner that allowed larger gatherings. That seems to have been left to Guaranteed Events, the 4NCL and their partner hotel/conference centre who this weekend run the first OTB event of any size for fifteen months.

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Re: Reviving Grassroots Chess Is Just As Important As ‘Saving Your Federation’

Post by John Upham » Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:45 pm

For the purpose of clarity I list my allegiances:

British Chess News : founder
Hampshire Junior Chess Association : Secretary and Megafinal Organiser and Hampshire Junior Congress Organiser
Berkshire Chess Association : Secretary and LMS Manager
Surrey Border League: LMS Manager
Camberley Chess Club: Membership Secretary, member and Team Captain and Keith Richardson Memorial organiser
Crowthorne Chess Club: member and Team Captain
City Chess Association : LMS Manager
UKCC : Numerous school chess club entry secretary
Manchester Chess Federation : LMS Manager
London Chess League : LMS Manager
Guildford Chess Club : member
Thames Valley League : LMS Manager
Hillingdon League : LMS Manager
Chess for Schools : founder and IT manager
European Chess Union : Accredited Coach
ECF / EJCOA : Accredited Coach
ECF: Accredited Arbiter
Frimley Junior Chess Club : founder
4NCL : nothing at all but once managed four teams simultaneously
English Chess Forum : "contributor" allegedly
London Central YMCA & Cavendish : ex-member so not that relevant
Numerous Schools : chess club manager
CSC : nothing at all
ChessPlus : Zoom person

So, a fair few conflicts there to pick through and speculate upon.
Last edited by John Upham on Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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J T Melsom
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Re: Reviving Grassroots Chess Is Just As Important As ‘Saving Your Federation’

Post by J T Melsom » Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:52 pm

One factor that is easy to overlook is the extent to which goal-posts have constantly shifted, both in respect of the nature and duration of restrictions. When I eventually floated unofficially the idea of a local on-line league, responses were somewhat limited, several clubs didn't respond at all. If I'd been able to say this is the only option for twelve months I'm sure there would have been a greater reaction.

As for the criticism of the ECF for not promoting the re-opening of clubs, I'm not sure this is entirely fair. Whatever advice had been promulgated, clubs would have reached their own decisions as often jealous guardians of their autonomy. That there is only today a first 4ncl Congress also suggests that for much of the period in question ECF Board members couldn't get chess played even with the freedom of wearing another hat. Whilst I think people have been entitled to look with scepticism at some of the decisions as to what opens and what doesn't, if the objective of government policy was to minimise the extent of interaction, then the case for chess has never realistically been a priority for relaxation.

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Re: Reviving Grassroots Chess Is Just As Important As ‘Saving Your Federation’

Post by Jacques Parry » Fri Jul 09, 2021 2:01 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:34 pm
He does make a valid point that the ECF hasn't done very much to facilitate OTB chess, discouraging attempts to interpret regulations in a manner that allowed larger gatherings.
I haven't been closely following the ECF's pronouncements, but it seems to have formed some sort of view (perhaps on legal advice?) about what the regulations do and don't permit. If that's right, I don't really see how it can be criticised for discouraging attempts to interpret them in a way which it believes to be wrong.

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Re: Reviving Grassroots Chess Is Just As Important As ‘Saving Your Federation’

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Fri Jul 09, 2021 2:03 pm

J T Melsom wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:52 pm
One factor that is easy to overlook is the extent to which goal-posts have constantly shifted, both in respect of the nature and duration of restrictions. When I eventually floated unofficially the idea of a local on-line league, responses were somewhat limited, several clubs didn't respond at all. If I'd been able to say this is the only option for twelve months I'm sure there would have been a greater reaction.

As for the criticism of the ECF for not promoting the re-opening of clubs, I'm not sure this is entirely fair. Whatever advice had been promulgated, clubs would have reached their own decisions as often jealous guardians of their autonomy. That there is only today a first 4ncl Congress also suggests that for much of the period in question ECF Board members couldn't get chess played even with the freedom of wearing another hat. Whilst I think people have been entitled to look with scepticism at some of the decisions as to what opens and what doesn't, if the objective of government policy was to minimise the extent of interaction, then the case for chess has never realistically been a priority for relaxation.
A post that had me wishing the forum had a like button! If the ECF has perhaps erred a bit on the side of caution they had to be careful that they weren't perceived to be encouraging clubs, congresses etc to bend and even break the rules.

Also the ECF is ultimately the cart rather than the horse. It can encourage new initiatives (and indeed could perhaps be a bit better at doing so) but if an organiser on the ground isn't willing to do the legwork, it remains an idea on a bit of paper. It works better the other way; when local organisers get a new initiative moving (as Tim has done) it's then for the organiser to put forward ideas of how the ECF could take things to the next stage.
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LawrenceCooper
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Re: Reviving Grassroots Chess Is Just As Important As ‘Saving Your Federation’

Post by LawrenceCooper » Fri Jul 09, 2021 2:05 pm

John Upham wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:45 pm
For the purpose of clarity I list my allegiances:

British Chess News : founder
Hampshire Junior Chess Association : Secretary and Megafinal Organiser and Hampshire Junior Congress Organiser
Berkshire Chess Association : Secretary and LMS Manager
Surrey Border League: LMS Manager
Camberley Chess Club: Membership Secretary, member and Team Captain and Keith Richardson Memorial organiser
Crowthorne Chess Club: member and Team Captain
City Chess Association : LMS Manager
UKCC : Numerous school chess club entry secretary
Manchester Chess Federation : LMS Manager
London Chess League : LMS Manager
Guildford Chess Club : member
Thames Valley League : LMS Manager
Hillingdon League : LMS Manager
Chess for Schools : founder and IT manager
European Chess Union : Accredited Coach
ECF / EJCOA : Accredited Coach
ECF: Accredited Arbiter
Frimley Junior Chess Club : founder
4NCL : nothing at all but once managed four teams simultaneously
English Chess Forum : "contributor" allegedly
London Central YMCA & Cavendish : ex-member so not that relevant
Numerous Schools : chess club manager
CSC : nothing at all
ChessPlus : Zoom person

So, a fair few conflicts there to pick through and speculate upon.
On Facebook today you mentioned " I had been involved in the creation of the EC Forum." so it seems unduly modest to admit here only to being a "contributor".

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John Upham
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Re: Reviving Grassroots Chess Is Just As Important As ‘Saving Your Federation’

Post by John Upham » Fri Jul 09, 2021 2:33 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 2:05 pm
John Upham wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:45 pm
For the purpose of clarity I list my allegiances:

British Chess News : founder
Hampshire Junior Chess Association : Secretary and Megafinal Organiser and Hampshire Junior Congress Organiser
Berkshire Chess Association : Secretary and LMS Manager
Surrey Border League: LMS Manager
Camberley Chess Club: Membership Secretary, member and Team Captain and Keith Richardson Memorial organiser
Crowthorne Chess Club: member and Team Captain
City Chess Association : LMS Manager
UKCC : Numerous school chess club entry secretary
Manchester Chess Federation : LMS Manager
London Chess League : LMS Manager
Guildford Chess Club : member
Thames Valley League : LMS Manager
Hillingdon League : LMS Manager
Chess for Schools : founder and IT manager
European Chess Union : Accredited Coach
ECF / EJCOA : Accredited Coach
ECF: Accredited Arbiter
Frimley Junior Chess Club : founder
4NCL : nothing at all but once managed four teams simultaneously
English Chess Forum : "contributor" allegedly
London Central YMCA & Cavendish : ex-member so not that relevant
Numerous Schools : chess club manager
CSC : nothing at all
ChessPlus : Zoom person

So, a fair few conflicts there to pick through and speculate upon.
On Facebook today you mentioned " I had been involved in the creation of the EC Forum." so it seems unduly modest to admit here only to being a "contributor".
That was too trivial to deserve a mention. CH and I had minor discussions as to the choice of domain name.

We discussed ecfforum.org.uk and ecforum.org.uk and settled for the latter as I recall.

But you are right, another possible source of conflict.
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Re: Reviving Grassroots Chess Is Just As Important As ‘Saving Your Federation’

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Fri Jul 09, 2021 3:52 pm

Conflict of interest is a difficult thing. It's quite natural for people running things to have interests elsewhere in chess. Where it gets shaky is if you seek a competitive advantage somewhere due to your influence elsewhere. I will cite an old example - three arbiters sat in judgement on an acrimonious dispute, despite the fact that the "accused" paid those three arbiters well every year to run tournaments for him. Maybe he would have been found innocent anyway, but the neutral observer might not think that. (Especially, when the accused person's employers then provided large amounts of sponsorship just after the verdict was announced!)

But obviously, junior organizers are interested in junior chess, so why not organize it? Unless of course you want a closed shop for you and your mates.

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