This is utterly absurd. Anyone who is fearful that being in the same room as a player not wearing a mask puts them at mortal risk, but chooses to play anyway on those terms, quite clearly does so at their own risk.IM Jack Rudd wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:55 pmYou might get a manslaughter charge if the lack of masking were considered gross negligence.
Chess Covid regulations poll
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll
You are correct that I hadn't actually checked the studies or even read any abstract. I therefore went to research the subject, and there are indeed a few, of which here are a couple:NickFaulks wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:17 pmI suspect that what you remember reading and hearing is many people stating confidently in the media that numerous such studies exist. The trouble is that nobody has ever actually seen one.Wadih Khoury wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:24 pmI thought I saw numerous studies showing the effectiveness of masks in preventing the contamination of others.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... g-full.pdf
https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118
Most studies agree that cloth masks do reduce transmission by a significant amount, and are much less efficient against contamination. It is therefore a tool not for self preservation fut for a more global pandemic control.
There are more complex studies out there but I am not trained nor qualified to interpret the results.
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll
Considering there are now no Covid restrictions how could an organiser be held responsible? Has anyone heard of personal responsibility?Jacques Parry wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:42 pmThat's correct. And an organiser could be held liable for compensation if they failed to take reasonable precautions and someone contracted Covid as a result. That someone could be either one of the participants (because you are responsible for negligence which causes injury even if the victim agreed to take the risk) or a third party who never agreed to take the risk at all.IM Jack Rudd wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:55 pmI am not a lawyer, but it clearly wouldn't be murder; you'd have to show that someone was deliberately infecting people to get that charge to stick. You might get a manslaughter charge if the lack of masking were considered gross negligence.
You don’t like the conditions then you don’t play.
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll
Nick, I agree it's unlikely that a manslaughter charge would get very far in these circumstances, and indeed Jack did say "might", but I assume [and hope] you're not suggesting that the fact that person A takes a risk in doing something absolves person B who does him [or her] harm.NickFaulks wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:03 pmThis is utterly absurd. Anyone who is fearful that being in the same room as a player not wearing a mask puts them at mortal risk, but chooses to play anyway on those terms, quite clearly does so at their own risk.IM Jack Rudd wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:55 pmYou might get a manslaughter charge if the lack of masking were considered gross negligence.
Deliberately infecting someone, or even doing so recklessly rather than deliberately, can be a criminal offence depending on the jurisdiction. There have been several convictions regarding transmission of HIV/Aids. I suppose that, if someone who knew they had the Covid-19 virus deliberately infected others, eg through spitting at them, that could land them in serious legal trouble.
Last edited by Roger Lancaster on Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:10 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll
Peer-reviewed case studies to follow?NickFaulks wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:06 pmParents report that their toddlers are now screaming at the sight of an unfamiliar and unmasked adult.
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll
If I hold a birthday party where beer is provided and someone trips over their shoelaces on their way home, that isn't my fault.Roger Lancaster wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:02 pmNick, I agree it's unlikely that a manslaughter charge would get very far in these circumstances, and indeed Jack did say "might", but I assume [and hope] you're not suggesting that the fact that person A takes a risk in doing something absolves person B who does him [or her] harm.
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll
Not usually, no (although I'm not sure I'd like to test the case where the beer had an unusually high alcohol content and you didn't warn people of this).NickFaulks wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:19 pmIf I hold a birthday party where beer is provided and someone trips over their shoelaces on their way home, that isn't my fault.Roger Lancaster wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:02 pmNick, I agree it's unlikely that a manslaughter charge would get very far in these circumstances, and indeed Jack did say "might", but I assume [and hope] you're not suggesting that the fact that person A takes a risk in doing something absolves person B who does him [or her] harm.
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll
1. In our example, you would have warned them that there may be unmasked people in the room and they have taken the decision to play anyway.
2. They're not blind.
2. They're not blind.
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll
Not even if you tied them together?NickFaulks wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:19 pmIf I hold a birthday party where beer is provided and someone trips over their shoelaces on their way home, that isn't my fault.Roger Lancaster wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:02 pmNick, I agree it's unlikely that a manslaughter charge would get very far in these circumstances, and indeed Jack did say "might", but I assume [and hope] you're not suggesting that the fact that person A takes a risk in doing something absolves person B who does him [or her] harm.
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll
I stopped doing that years ago.
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll
I've not had an alcoholic drink in a few months.
Although the alcohol that Nick is providing sounds tempting. Is it Home Brew?
Great news in the Olympic Games with Bermuda winning their first ever gold medal.
I saw the race, it was quite exciting.
When is your next tournament Nick?
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll
The law says that you are responsible for harm foreseeably caused by your failure to take reasonable care for the safety of others. That is nothing to do with Covid restrictions. And "you chose to take the risk" is not a defence. Even if it were, how would it work in the case of people who don't choose to attend but catch Covid from someone who did?
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll
I suppose the extreme case, which hadn't occurred to me earlier, is that of "assisted suicide". There person A specifically requests person B to do what the law considers "harm" to them but, unless there's been a recent legal development of which I'm unaware, even a response to an explicit request is not a defence. When last I looked, and I'll defer here to any lawyers present, I believe the CPS decided it wasn't in the public interest to prosecute in many cases but that's a different matter.Jacques Parry wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:45 amThe law says that you are responsible for harm foreseeably caused by your failure to take reasonable care for the safety of others. That is nothing to do with Covid restrictions. And "you chose to take the risk" is not a defence. Even if it were, how would it work in the case of people who don't choose to attend but catch Covid from someone who did?
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll
As you say, we have come a very long way from permitting a chess player to sit in a room with others who are unmasked, in conditions less crowded than in all the pubs and restaurants where nobody is wearing a mask.Roger Lancaster wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:00 amI suppose the extreme case, which hadn't occurred to me earlier, is that of "assisted suicide".
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll
Is it likely the idea of being able to claim a half point bye if your opponent doesn’t want to wear a mask will be commonly adopted by chess organisers? Or is it more likely just to be a short lived idea?
Last edited by Matt Bridgeman on Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.