Chess Covid regulations poll

Discuss anything you like about chess related matters in this forum.

How should chess competitions draft their rules for concerns about covid?

Poll ended at Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:32 am

1. Meet all concerns of those worried about virus transmission
4
11%
2. Bias towards those who are concerned about virus transmission, even if some of those concerned about personal freedom drop out
15
42%
3. Maximise participation
11
31%
4. Bias towards those who are concerned about personal freedom, even if some of those concerned about virus transmission drop out
4
11%
5. Meet all concerns of those worried about personal freedom
2
6%
 
Total votes: 36

NickFaulks
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:03 pm

IM Jack Rudd wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:55 pm
You might get a manslaughter charge if the lack of masking were considered gross negligence.
This is utterly absurd. Anyone who is fearful that being in the same room as a player not wearing a mask puts them at mortal risk, but chooses to play anyway on those terms, quite clearly does so at their own risk.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

Wadih Khoury
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by Wadih Khoury » Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:38 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:17 pm
Wadih Khoury wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:24 pm
I thought I saw numerous studies showing the effectiveness of masks in preventing the contamination of others.
I suspect that what you remember reading and hearing is many people stating confidently in the media that numerous such studies exist. The trouble is that nobody has ever actually seen one.

You are correct that I hadn't actually checked the studies or even read any abstract. I therefore went to research the subject, and there are indeed a few, of which here are a couple:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... g-full.pdf

https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118

Most studies agree that cloth masks do reduce transmission by a significant amount, and are much less efficient against contamination. It is therefore a tool not for self preservation fut for a more global pandemic control.
There are more complex studies out there but I am not trained nor qualified to interpret the results.

Gary Cook
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by Gary Cook » Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:52 pm

Jacques Parry wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:42 pm
IM Jack Rudd wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:55 pm
Gary Cook wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:46 pm
Has there been any conclusive evidence or charges of murder from unmasked people killing masked victims of Covid.
I am not a lawyer, but it clearly wouldn't be murder; you'd have to show that someone was deliberately infecting people to get that charge to stick. You might get a manslaughter charge if the lack of masking were considered gross negligence.
That's correct. And an organiser could be held liable for compensation if they failed to take reasonable precautions and someone contracted Covid as a result. That someone could be either one of the participants (because you are responsible for negligence which causes injury even if the victim agreed to take the risk) or a third party who never agreed to take the risk at all.
Considering there are now no Covid restrictions how could an organiser be held responsible? Has anyone heard of personal responsibility?
You don’t like the conditions then you don’t play.

Roger Lancaster
Posts: 1910
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by Roger Lancaster » Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:02 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:03 pm
IM Jack Rudd wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:55 pm
You might get a manslaughter charge if the lack of masking were considered gross negligence.
This is utterly absurd. Anyone who is fearful that being in the same room as a player not wearing a mask puts them at mortal risk, but chooses to play anyway on those terms, quite clearly does so at their own risk.
Nick, I agree it's unlikely that a manslaughter charge would get very far in these circumstances, and indeed Jack did say "might", but I assume [and hope] you're not suggesting that the fact that person A takes a risk in doing something absolves person B who does him [or her] harm.

Deliberately infecting someone, or even doing so recklessly rather than deliberately, can be a criminal offence depending on the jurisdiction. There have been several convictions regarding transmission of HIV/Aids. I suppose that, if someone who knew they had the Covid-19 virus deliberately infected others, eg through spitting at them, that could land them in serious legal trouble.
Last edited by Roger Lancaster on Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:10 pm, edited 4 times in total.

David Williams
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by David Williams » Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:04 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:06 pm
Parents report that their toddlers are now screaming at the sight of an unfamiliar and unmasked adult.
Peer-reviewed case studies to follow?

NickFaulks
Posts: 8453
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:19 pm

Roger Lancaster wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:02 pm
Nick, I agree it's unlikely that a manslaughter charge would get very far in these circumstances, and indeed Jack did say "might", but I assume [and hope] you're not suggesting that the fact that person A takes a risk in doing something absolves person B who does him [or her] harm.
If I hold a birthday party where beer is provided and someone trips over their shoelaces on their way home, that isn't my fault.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:25 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:19 pm
Roger Lancaster wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:02 pm
Nick, I agree it's unlikely that a manslaughter charge would get very far in these circumstances, and indeed Jack did say "might", but I assume [and hope] you're not suggesting that the fact that person A takes a risk in doing something absolves person B who does him [or her] harm.
If I hold a birthday party where beer is provided and someone trips over their shoelaces on their way home, that isn't my fault.
Not usually, no (although I'm not sure I'd like to test the case where the beer had an unusually high alcohol content and you didn't warn people of this).

NickFaulks
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Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:30 pm

1. In our example, you would have warned them that there may be unmasked people in the room and they have taken the decision to play anyway.

2. They're not blind.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

LawrenceCooper
Posts: 7173
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:13 am

Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by LawrenceCooper » Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:53 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:19 pm
Roger Lancaster wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:02 pm
Nick, I agree it's unlikely that a manslaughter charge would get very far in these circumstances, and indeed Jack did say "might", but I assume [and hope] you're not suggesting that the fact that person A takes a risk in doing something absolves person B who does him [or her] harm.
If I hold a birthday party where beer is provided and someone trips over their shoelaces on their way home, that isn't my fault.
Not even if you tied them together? :wink:

NickFaulks
Posts: 8453
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:57 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:53 pm
Not even if you tied them together? :wink:
I stopped doing that years ago.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

Simon Rogers
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by Simon Rogers » Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:21 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:57 pm
LawrenceCooper wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:53 pm
Not even if you tied them together? :wink:
I stopped doing that years ago.
I've not had an alcoholic drink in a few months.
Although the alcohol that Nick is providing sounds tempting. Is it Home Brew? :lol:
Great news in the Olympic Games with Bermuda winning their first ever gold medal.
I saw the race, it was quite exciting.
When is your next tournament Nick?

Jacques Parry
Posts: 131
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:37 pm

Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by Jacques Parry » Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:45 am

Gary Cook wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:52 pm
Considering there are now no Covid restrictions how could an organiser be held responsible? Has anyone heard of personal responsibility?
You don’t like the conditions then you don’t play.
The law says that you are responsible for harm foreseeably caused by your failure to take reasonable care for the safety of others. That is nothing to do with Covid restrictions. And "you chose to take the risk" is not a defence. Even if it were, how would it work in the case of people who don't choose to attend but catch Covid from someone who did?

Roger Lancaster
Posts: 1910
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:44 pm

Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by Roger Lancaster » Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:00 am

Jacques Parry wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:45 am
The law says that you are responsible for harm foreseeably caused by your failure to take reasonable care for the safety of others. That is nothing to do with Covid restrictions. And "you chose to take the risk" is not a defence. Even if it were, how would it work in the case of people who don't choose to attend but catch Covid from someone who did?
I suppose the extreme case, which hadn't occurred to me earlier, is that of "assisted suicide". There person A specifically requests person B to do what the law considers "harm" to them but, unless there's been a recent legal development of which I'm unaware, even a response to an explicit request is not a defence. When last I looked, and I'll defer here to any lawyers present, I believe the CPS decided it wasn't in the public interest to prosecute in many cases but that's a different matter.

NickFaulks
Posts: 8453
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by NickFaulks » Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:17 am

Roger Lancaster wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:00 am
I suppose the extreme case, which hadn't occurred to me earlier, is that of "assisted suicide".
As you say, we have come a very long way from permitting a chess player to sit in a room with others who are unmasked, in conditions less crowded than in all the pubs and restaurants where nobody is wearing a mask.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

Matt Bridgeman
Posts: 1077
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 9:21 pm

Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by Matt Bridgeman » Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:27 am

Is it likely the idea of being able to claim a half point bye if your opponent doesn’t want to wear a mask will be commonly adopted by chess organisers? Or is it more likely just to be a short lived idea?
Last edited by Matt Bridgeman on Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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