Chess Covid regulations poll

Discuss anything you like about chess related matters in this forum.

How should chess competitions draft their rules for concerns about covid?

Poll ended at Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:32 am

1. Meet all concerns of those worried about virus transmission
4
11%
2. Bias towards those who are concerned about virus transmission, even if some of those concerned about personal freedom drop out
15
42%
3. Maximise participation
11
31%
4. Bias towards those who are concerned about personal freedom, even if some of those concerned about virus transmission drop out
4
11%
5. Meet all concerns of those worried about personal freedom
2
6%
 
Total votes: 36

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:41 pm

"I suppose in a chess context it would be nice to see organisers keeping some mask and hygiene measures, or risk some players stepping away from the game probably on a semi-permanent basis."

Absolutely, but without wishing to sound frivolous, there have always been hygiene issues with some chess players.

NickFaulks
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by NickFaulks » Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:10 pm

Matt Bridgeman wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:32 pm
It does seem correct that the long term impact of covid on health isn’t known.
Of course it does. Any long terms effects of the vaccines would also not be known for years either, that's the thing about long term effects. The difference is that anyone who mentions the latter is branded as an anti-vaxxer and censored by the social media giants.

We can't even be certain about the long term effect of semi-permanent lockdown measures on the mental health of children, but I am more confident about the answer to that one.
Last edited by NickFaulks on Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

Angus French
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by Angus French » Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:05 pm

Mick Norris wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:41 pm
Angus French wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:33 pm
I have some involvement in the running of two leagues and my primary concern is the safety of participants... this means finding out about how the virus is transmitted, its effects, and appropriate risk mitigations.
Are you asking clubs to use the ECF Guidance Angus?

If any League is going to have regulations, as opposed to guidance, how is it going to be enforced in practice?
Mick, did you mean to link to the Risk Assessment document - or the Covid Precautions page? Locally, I've referred to the precautions page and tried to stress the importance of risk assessments. Um, I think both ECF documents need updating to reflect the evidence that a major (if not the primary) means of transmission is by aerosol (very small particles which can stay in the air for long periods of time and can travel tens of meters - and also, I think, more easily reach lungs).

Anyhow, ventilation is very important - and so too, I think, are masks (but they have to be close-fitting and filter well - three-layer cloth masks should be good).

The best advice I've seen about making indoor spaces safe is here. The advice is conveyed through short animations which I think make their points very well.

Also I think this, from two days ago, is an excellent summary of the current state of scientific thinking on masks.

Mick Norris
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by Mick Norris » Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:27 pm

Hi Angus, yes the Risk Assessment, as I saw that had been updated this month, although as you say, the documents will need updating

Interesting animations, yes very useful

I couldn't get your last link to work
Any postings on here represent my personal views

Angus French
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by Angus French » Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:34 pm

Oh, the link works for me. It's to a Twitter thread and you could go to https://twitter.com/trishgreenhalgh - the thread is currently Trisha Greenhalgh's pinned thread. Or, I see there's now an easier-to-read article.

Roger Lancaster
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by Roger Lancaster » Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:01 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:10 pm
Matt Bridgeman wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:32 pm
It does seem correct that the long term impact of covid on health isn’t known.
Of course it does. Any long terms effects of the vaccines would also not be known for years either, that's the thing about long term effects. The difference is that anyone who mentions the latter is branded as an anti-vaxxer and censored by the social media giants.
I'm not a great fan of vaccines, and regularly decline my 'flu jab on the grounds that my body has a good record in resisting 'flu - and, on balance, I regard the risks associated with the 'flu jab as comparable in my own case to those of the disease itself. I don't consider that makes me an "anti-vaxxer" and, in the case of Covid, I considered the risks associated with the jab as similar to those of the 'flu jab but the risks associated with the disease as significantly higher. I may be making correct decisions or I may not but at least they seem to me to be rational. I think that the people being dubbed "anti-vaxxers" are those who confidently specify outcomes which, as Nick correctly says, cannot be known for years to come and are in no way rational.

Paul Cooksey
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by Paul Cooksey » Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:41 am

Thanks everyone who voted.

I was expecting a symmetrical result with the peak at 3. So an interesting result for me.

Simon Rogers
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by Simon Rogers » Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:54 am

Paul Cooksey wrote:
Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:41 am
Thanks everyone who voted.

I was expecting a symmetrical result with the peak at 3. So an interesting result for me.
It was the first forum poll I had voted in. After careful consideration of the pros and cons, in the end I voted for number 2.

Gary Cook
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by Gary Cook » Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:36 am

We are inclined not to advise mask wearing at the next Sam Black. A large hall will be hired to improve ventilation. Poor air quality and crowding are major culprits in spreading air born viruses. Masks encourage complacency.

Phil Neatherway
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by Phil Neatherway » Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:35 pm

Hi Gary,
I just read the article that Angus linked to, and it says that there is no evidence that masks encourage complacency.

Matt Bridgeman
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by Matt Bridgeman » Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:54 pm

Phil Neatherway wrote:
Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:35 pm
Hi Gary,
I just read the article that Angus linked to, and it says that there is no evidence that masks encourage complacency.
Masks protect other people in the main. I guess we shouldn’t forget that a lot of people are asymptotic and won’t even know they have Covid. Masks will help stop them needlessly infecting other people.

Gary Cook
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by Gary Cook » Sat Jul 17, 2021 5:18 pm

Masks are as much use as a chocolate tea pot. Virus particles can only be contained by N95 standard masks. The average mask is rendered useless after ten minutes of breathing, respiratory function renders them useless. Surgeons wear them as spit catchers, a courtesy to their patients.
Your average man in the street thinks it is fine to maul a mask, pull it off and contaminate it quickly. Dirty unhygienic things unless used in the correct settings with the proper protocol.
Most users don’t know how to put them on correctly. They are not trained and face coverings are inadequate.
Several doctors I know when asked an opinion stated that masks are useless.
They are used as a behavioural device.
Unless you attend a game with several N95 or masks of equal standard, the statistics are insignificant.

Matt Bridgeman
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by Matt Bridgeman » Sat Jul 17, 2021 5:24 pm

Gary Cook wrote:
Sat Jul 17, 2021 5:18 pm
Masks are as much use as a chocolate tea pot. Virus particles can only be contained by N95 standard masks. The average mask is rendered useless after ten minutes of breathing, respiratory function renders them useless. Surgeons wear them as spit catchers, a courtesy to their patients.
Your average man in the street thinks it is fine to maul a mask, pull it off and contaminate it quickly. Dirty unhygienic things unless used in the correct settings with the proper protocol.
Most users don’t know how to put them on correctly. They are not trained and face coverings are inadequate.
Several doctors I know when asked an opinion stated that masks are useless.
They are used as a behavioural device.
Unless you attend a game with several N95 or masks of equal standard, the statistics are insignificant.
This recent Sky News article doesn’t come across quite so negatively; https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-wha ... s-12349337

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Sat Jul 17, 2021 5:33 pm

"a lot of people are asymptotic"

"asymptomatic" probably - asymptotic means they're never quite getting somewhere, although that might happen too!

Gary Cook
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by Gary Cook » Sat Jul 17, 2021 6:05 pm

Matt
Check the Danish study. Realism suggests that good ventilation is key. Overcrowding will always trump poor quality masks. Asymptomatic makes little difference. Social distancing and not touching your face is of greater value. There is evidence that Covid can transmit via the conjunctivae. Goggles and side wrap glasses do not get recommended.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/do- ... -covid-19-

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