Karjakin loses his record

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Paul Cooksey
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Re: Karjakin loses his record

Post by Paul Cooksey » Sat Jul 03, 2021 8:02 am

Nepo on Twitter wrote:I’m dazzled with the new record, so I’d like to suggest some changes to the order of conferring titles. For example, one of the norms must be fulfilled in an open tournament, and the participation of 2400 GM luminaries in stamping new titles should be finally limited.
@FIDE_chess
Abhi Misra on Twitter wrote: Thanks. I am very positive guy and would take that as compliment to dazzle world champion challenger. On a lighter note it would have made more sense to suggest these awesome suggestions when you were approaching your GM title.
#ChessDrama as we say on the internet...

Nepo scored his GM norms at very strong tournaments rather than with huge scores against weaker players, so he is not in a glass house. But whether he should have started this, and whether Abhi or his team should have responded a different question.

2500 is about 900 in the world now. It was about 700 in 2007. So I don't think a huge difference, although if I ruled the world I would want a new GM to reach the top 100.

Joseph Conlon
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Re: Karjakin loses his record

Post by Joseph Conlon » Sat Jul 03, 2021 9:43 am

As I am too lazy to check properly, does 900 in the world here refer to overall rating rank? In which case this might be unfair as there may be some number of ‘zombie’ ratings where players have retired from competitive chess but obviously maintain their rating.

Paul Cooksey
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Re: Karjakin loses his record

Post by Paul Cooksey » Sat Jul 03, 2021 9:47 am

905 all players, 742 active players. Very lazy indeed in fairness, although I will forgive you if you did not know FIDE publish on the individual records: https://ratings.fide.com/profile/30920019

Geoff Chandler
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Re: Karjakin loses his record

Post by Geoff Chandler » Sat Jul 03, 2021 11:12 am

On chessgames.com I have come across this. A list of the youngest GM's since the title was officially awarded.

1950 Bronstein 26 years
1952 Petrosian 23 years
1955 Spassky 18 years
1958 Fischer 15 years, 6 months, 1 day
1991 Judit Polgar 15 years, 4 months, 28 days
1994 Leko 14 years, 4 months, 22 days
1997 Bacrot 14 years, 2 months
1997 Ponomariov 14 years, 17 days
1999 Bu Xiangzhi 13 years, 10 mos., 13 days
2002 Karjakin 12 years, 7 months
2021 Mishra 12 years, 4 months, 25 days

The poster adds:
Three consecutive world champions (Petrosian, Spassky, Fischer), one FIDE world champion (Ponomariov),
three challengers who almost won the world championship (Bronstein, Leko, Karjakin), the strongest woman in history (Polgar).

Quite an impressive field and a good omen for the wee lad.

Paul Cooksey
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Re: Karjakin loses his record

Post by Paul Cooksey » Sat Jul 03, 2021 11:49 am

Just pulling on my early thread, from chessmetrics:

Bronstein #3
Petrosian #15
Spassky #15
Fischer #27
Polgar #79 (FIDE)
Leko enters FIDE top 100 in 1995, I think probably just outside when he reached GM

I'd be interested to check Karjakin in 2002 if anyone knows somewhere where the 2002 rating list is available

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MJMcCready
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Re: Karjakin loses his record

Post by MJMcCready » Sat Jul 03, 2021 12:45 pm

Geoff Chandler wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 11:12 am
On chessgames.com I have come across this. A list of the youngest GM's since the title was officially awarded.

1950 Bronstein 26 years
1952 Petrosian 23 years
1955 Spassky 18 years
1958 Fischer 15 years, 6 months, 1 day
1991 Judit Polgar 15 years, 4 months, 28 days
1994 Leko 14 years, 4 months, 22 days
1997 Bacrot 14 years, 2 months
1997 Ponomariov 14 years, 17 days
1999 Bu Xiangzhi 13 years, 10 mos., 13 days
2002 Karjakin 12 years, 7 months
2021 Mishra 12 years, 4 months, 25 days

The poster adds:
Three consecutive world champions (Petrosian, Spassky, Fischer), one FIDE world champion (Ponomariov),
three challengers who almost won the world championship (Bronstein, Leko, Karjakin), the strongest woman in history (Polgar).

Quite an impressive field and a good omen for the wee lad.
It's a little early to make predictions but yes it does look good. I saw the game that D.King covered and his play was very impressive for someone his age. I think so much depends on the support he gets, especially from his family. It will be interesting to see how he gets on in the world cup. He's been drawn against Jobava I believe.

NickFaulks
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Re: Karjakin loses his record

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:09 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 11:49 am
Just pulling on my early thread, from chessmetrics:

Bronstein #3
Petrosian #15
Spassky #15
Fischer #27
Polgar #79 (FIDE)
Leko enters FIDE top 100 in 1995, I think probably just outside when he reached GM

I'd be interested to check Karjakin in 2002 if anyone knows somewhere where the 2002 rating list is available
You can get there, although they don't make it easy.

https://ratings.fide.com/download.phtml ... 2002-01-01
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MJMcCready
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Re: Karjakin loses his record

Post by MJMcCready » Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:15 pm

Karjakan was competing against Carlsen, Naka and Nepo at an early age. Not much, or nothing at all, has been said about who our new youngest GM's main rivals and peers are.

NickFaulks
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Re: Karjakin loses his record

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:21 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:09 pm
You can get there, although they don't make it easy.

https://ratings.fide.com/download.phtml ... 2002-01-01
I haven't had any success trying to paste this into a spreadsheet. Can someone more skilled help?
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

Paul Cooksey
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Re: Karjakin loses his record

Post by Paul Cooksey » Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:32 pm

We have Karjakin at 400 on the October list, the first one after he became a GM with only 13 inactive players ahead of him. But he was already 2527 by then.

Michael Stean, for example, was exactly 2500 and at 602

(just as an afterthought, I don't mean any disrespect to Abhi Mishra who himself has talked about trying to get to 2700 by 15. I think that would make a #27 Fischer comparison sensible. 2700 by 16 isn't bad; Magnus, Ali Reza)

Paul Cooksey
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Re: Karjakin loses his record

Post by Paul Cooksey » Sat Jul 03, 2021 2:02 pm

On the #ChessDrama front, it is the father tweeting and he is still going. He does seem to be making a bid to be the the 21st century's Rustam Kamsky

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Karjakin loses his record

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Jul 03, 2021 2:29 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 2:02 pm
the 21st century's Rustam Kamsky

Gata was born in 1974, GM in 1990 so aged 15 or 16 when he got the title. He was however a world title contender by the time he was 20. Rustam allegedly broke a sponsorship deal for the FIDE world championship (or was it the PCA version?) back in the 90s.

NickFaulks
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Re: Karjakin loses his record

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Jul 03, 2021 2:32 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:32 pm
We have Karjakin at 400 on the October list
How did you do that?
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Paul Cooksey
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Re: Karjakin loses his record

Post by Paul Cooksey » Sat Jul 03, 2021 2:40 pm

fide site -> text app ->copy and paste everything to a speadsheet., then =mid(cell,54,4) to get the rating. The fact the rating appears in the same place with formatted spacing suggest the file was structured and someone has converted it to text before uploading it, which is a special kind of helpfulness.

Slightly embarrassingly I'm too cheap to buy an office licence for personal use so did it with Libre Office. If you have excel you can probably just overtype the the file extension to xls and sort it out when you open the file and excel complains.

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MJMcCready
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Re: Karjakin loses his record

Post by MJMcCready » Sat Jul 03, 2021 2:41 pm

I think the first hurdle is going to be how he copes with better opposition. Most of his opponents have been 2300-2500. Once he starts competing against those 2600+ it will be a different ball game.

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