FIDE rating differences between countries

Discuss anything you like about chess related matters in this forum.
NickFaulks
Posts: 8452
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: FIDE rating differences between countries

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:35 am

Paul Cooksey wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:17 am
But I'd think it would be ok if an improving junior who played actively stayed within 50 points of their rating while they are improving.
You are aiming impossibly high. If k=40, the standard error of ratings based on random fluctuations alone is about 70. A single blunder which turns a win into a loss costs 40.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

Paul Cooksey
Posts: 1519
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:15 pm

Re: FIDE rating differences between countries

Post by Paul Cooksey » Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:39 am

Fair enough. What is a reasonable expectation?

NickFaulks
Posts: 8452
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: FIDE rating differences between countries

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:54 am

I don't think people should complain about a "trailing error" of -70, because the rating started too low and is constantly trying to catch up with playing strength, superimposed on a random variation of 70. The net result is that for an improving junior of playing strength X, rating would usually ( one sd ) be in a range ( X-140, X ).

All very approximate, but a general idea.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

Kevin Thurlow
Posts: 5802
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:28 pm

Re: FIDE rating differences between countries

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:54 am

And you do get anomalies like young Praggnanandhaa, who played at Rekjavik 2018 with a rating of 2507 (performance 2579) and in the rapidplay, his rating was 1736, with a 2597 performance... (The RP was Chess960, so wasn't rated as RP).

NickFaulks
Posts: 8452
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: FIDE rating differences between countries

Post by NickFaulks » Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:58 am

Yes, indeed. He got his initial rating when he was six years old and then played an average of five rated rapid games per annum. There isn't much you can do about that, other than chuck his rapid rating in the bin and use the real one.

This does bang on the head the idea that rapid events are not reported because of the cost. Rapid and Blitz events have always been rated by FIDE free of charge.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

User avatar
JustinHorton
Posts: 10364
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:06 am
Location: Somewhere you're not

Re: FIDE rating differences between countries

Post by JustinHorton » Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:09 am

I don't know anything much about rating, so I may be on completely the wrong track here (or raising something everybody else knows already about) but if today a lot of chess is played on the internet, and if therefore a lot of improvement is made by playing in that medium, would that have a distorting effect, because improvement that would previously have been made in rated chess is (to some degree) no longer properly tracked by those ratings?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

NickFaulks
Posts: 8452
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: FIDE rating differences between countries

Post by NickFaulks » Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:18 am

Absolutely. As OTB chess returns ( as it will in most countries ) huge discrepancies will probably be revealed. It is not out of the question that some radical correcting mechanism will have to be considered, but for now there is not enough data to give that sensible thought.

edit : One side effect is that some players who have shown extreme levels of improvement during their absence from OTB play may well find themselves accused of cheating.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

David Sedgwick
Posts: 5249
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:56 pm
Location: Croydon
Contact:

Re: FIDE rating differences between countries

Post by David Sedgwick » Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:47 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:18 am
edit : One side effect is that some players who have shown extreme levels of improvement during their absence from OTB play may well find themselves accused of cheating.
... and some of them probably will be.

One of my fears is that players who have developed methods of cheating online will transfer their new skills to OTB as that restarts.

Helen Milligan
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:01 pm

Re: FIDE rating differences between countries

Post by Helen Milligan » Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:17 pm

With regard to charges for FIDE-rating Rapid and Blitz: FIDE does not charge but federations can and do. NZL is currently discussing charges (something which I as President of a club which just decided to FIDE-rate everything am not happy about!)

Brian Towers
Posts: 1266
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:23 pm

Re: FIDE rating differences between countries

Post by Brian Towers » Sat Jul 03, 2021 9:20 pm

Alex McFarlane wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:29 am
For Swiss events the FIDE cost of rating is €1 per player per event.
No, that's not true. All of the FIDE rated blitz tournaments I've organized have incurred zero rating costs because FIDE doesn't charge for rating blitz and the ECF don't grade them and so can't charge for what they don't do. It's a cheap way of getting new players into rated games for free (or very little) because ECF is also not required.

FIDE also don't charge for rating rapid so for those tournaments the only cost is ECF silver membership as the ECF do grade rapid. Can you have a rapid tournament in England which is FIDE rated but not ECF graded? Or are such thoughts not permitted?
Last edited by Brian Towers on Sat Jul 03, 2021 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

LawrenceCooper
Posts: 7167
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:13 am

Re: FIDE rating differences between countries

Post by LawrenceCooper » Sat Jul 03, 2021 9:46 pm

Brian Towers wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 9:20 pm
Alex McFarlane wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:29 am
For Swiss events the FIDE cost of rating is €1 per player per event.
No, that's not true. All of the FIDFE rated blitz tournaments I've organized have incurred zero rating costs because FIDE doesn't charge for rating blitz and the ECF don't grade them and so can't charge for what they don't do. It's a cheap way of getting new players into rated games for free (or very little) because ECF is also not required.

FIDE also don't charge for rating rapid so for those tournaments the only cost is ECF silver membership as the ECF do grade rapid. Can you have a rapid tournament in England which is FIDE rated but not ECF graded? Or are such thoughts not permitted?
It's true in the discussion it was posted in on page 1 which was about standard play tournaments.

Post Reply