Racist terminology in chess problems

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J T Melsom
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Re: Racist terminology in chess problems

Post by J T Melsom » Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:40 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:00 pm
Justin, do you have any similar concerns about the use of the term "Albino" for a White pawn?
I reported this post yesterday for 'silliness'. It never occurred to me that it was intended as an offer by the poster to take up a series of problematic words and phrases with the BCPS. It looked like an attempt to distract from the horribly racist term Justin had flagged, in the same way as other posters had tried to shift the dialogue with varying forms of 'whataboutism' . David's explanation therefore came as a surprise. It is possible knowing David to accept his intentions were genuine, but not without a degree of mischief. Understandable though if in the context of debate in recent days the contribution is considered a bit worse than mischief.

EDIT BCPS
Last edited by J T Melsom on Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

David Sedgwick
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Re: Racist terminology in chess problems

Post by David Sedgwick » Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:55 pm

I offered to raise with the British Chess Problem Society the use of the extremely offensive term "p........y" and the possibly also inappropriate term "Albino". I asked whether or not the latter term was indeed inappropriate.

For my pains I have been subjected to unpleasant criticism and reported for "siiliness". Even now I have not had the courtesy of a reply to my question.

There is an important issue here, but I no longer wish to be involved with it myself. I am withdrawing my offer to contact the BCPS. I hope that John Upham's approach to them proves fruitful.

I am deleting my posts in this thread with the exception of this one and I shall not post in the thread again.

J T Melsom
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Re: Racist terminology in chess problems

Post by J T Melsom » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:01 pm

It is now impossible to see whether David's offer of dialogue with the BCPS came before or after he queried the status of albino. I would certainly not have reported the post if I'd seen such an offer in the same time frame as the reported post.



Edit 'BCPS'

David Sedgwick
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Re: Racist terminology in chess problems

Post by David Sedgwick » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:54 pm

J T Melsom wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:01 pm
It is now impossible to see whether David's offer of dialogue with the BCPS came before or after he queried the status of albino. I would certainly not have reported the post if I'd seen such an offer in the same time frame as the reported post.
I will answer that.

It was not in my first post, but it was in my second one in which I explained that Justin had misunderstood my intentions.

I fail to discern a justification for you continuing to accuse me of mischief making after I had posted that explanation.

J T Melsom
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Re: Racist terminology in chess problems

Post by J T Melsom » Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:03 pm

I am justified because I was describing my reaction to your first post, which was the only post available for anybody to react to at the time of the reaction. You could have combined the two posts in the first place and the post would not have been reported, and the reaction might have been less dramatic. As for whether the second post refutes the charge of mischief making, I really don't know, but one initial post would have removed any doubt.

I remember at university being asked to comment on the dramatic impact of the play the Trojan Women. We had not seen it performed. My essay was then criticised for failing to consider fragments of other parts of the trilogy, which we had neither seen performed nor read. Some here will recognise the similarities.

Tim Spanton
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Re: Racist terminology in chess problems

Post by Tim Spanton » Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:54 pm

It seems we should all be careful how we write about chess as the language police can be very active:
https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases ... 021721.php

Geoff Chandler
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Re: Racist terminology in chess problems

Post by Geoff Chandler » Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:04 pm

Hi Tim,

Once saw a very serious incident blow up because a few players were in a bar discussing the French Defence
and one lad kept saying the French (defence) was garbage, rubbish etc... The barmaid was French and did not know
they were talking about a chess opening. It kicked off from there.

Tim Spanton
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Re: Racist terminology in chess problems

Post by Tim Spanton » Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:08 pm

Geoff Chandler wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:04 pm
Hi Tim,

Once saw a very serious incident blow up because a few players were in a bar discussing the French Defence
and one lad kept saying the French (defence) was garbage, rubbish etc... The barmaid was French and did not know
they were talking about a chess opening. It kicked off from there.
Are you sure you aren't jumping to unfair conclusions? She might have been a strong chess player who believed in the efficacy of playing open defences

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JustinHorton
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Re: Racist terminology in chess problems

Post by JustinHorton » Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:10 pm

Tim Spanton wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:54 pm
It seems we should all be careful how we write about chess as the language police can be very active:
https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases ... 021721.php
"Language police"
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Racist terminology in chess problems

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:12 pm

"I am justified because I was describing my reaction to your first post, which was the only post available for anybody to react to at the time of the reaction. You could have combined the two posts in the first place and the post would not have been reported, and the reaction might have been less dramatic. As for whether the second post refutes the charge of mischief making, I really don't know, but one initial post would have removed any doubt."

So your malicious response was someone else's fault?

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JustinHorton
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Re: Racist terminology in chess problems

Post by JustinHorton » Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:12 pm

Geoff Chandler wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:04 pm
Hi Tim,

Once saw a very serious incident blow up because a few players were in a bar discussing the French Defence
and one lad kept saying the French (defence) was garbage, rubbish etc... The barmaid was French and did not know
they were talking about a chess opening. It kicked off from there.
Hi Geoff. Racist language matters. It's not just another trivial thing for you to have a laugh about. Please don't behave as if it were: it makes our community look ignorant at best.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Racist terminology in chess problems

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:15 pm

"Racist language matters. It's not just another trivial thing for you to have a laugh about. Please don't behave as if it were: it makes our community look ignorant at best."

Agreed, but making false accusations of racism matters as well, especially when you do not have the integrity to acknowledge when you have done so.

J T Melsom
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Re: Racist terminology in chess problems

Post by J T Melsom » Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:18 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:12 pm
"I am justified because I was describing my reaction to your first post, which was the only post available for anybody to react to at the time of the reaction. You could have combined the two posts in the first place and the post would not have been reported, and the reaction might have been less dramatic. As for whether the second post refutes the charge of mischief making, I really don't know, but one initial post would have removed any doubt."

So your malicious response was someone else's fault?
What have I posted that was malicious? I reacted to one post, and have considered the impact of the second. Its impact is at best ambiguous.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Racist terminology in chess problems

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:20 pm

By your own admission you reported a post without reading it.

In the past, you have made false accusations of racism.

J T Melsom
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Re: Racist terminology in chess problems

Post by J T Melsom » Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:24 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:20 pm
By your own admission you reported a post without reading it.

In the past, you have made false accusations of racism.
I reported the first post David wrote and no other. I had read it.

I have not made false accusations of racism. If such accusations have been made then I suggest they are raised with the moderators and I will comply with their advice.

Where is my malicious response?

Of course if the posts under discussion hadn't been deleted the debate might be better informed and less confusing.

As Justin has said let's get this back on topic. But as I'm being falsely accused a retraction perhaps by private message wouldn't go amiss.
Last edited by J T Melsom on Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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