Digital clock repairs

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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Digital clock repairs

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue May 25, 2021 9:32 am

Wadih Khoury wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 9:17 am
I do not see the point of limiting on purpose the information available to players.
In over the board chess, it is expected that players make their own record of moves played and use this in support of any claims. That can include keeping track of the move count.

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Joey Stewart
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Re: Digital clock repairs

Post by Joey Stewart » Tue May 25, 2021 12:40 pm

Wadih Khoury wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 9:17 am
One of the main points of chess is that it is a game with perfect information. I do not see the point of limiting on purpose the information available to players.
I feel it is something to do with the warlike nature of the game and the type of mind it attracts - a lot of people want to one up their fellow chess players at every possible opportunity, be it witholding critical information, creation of excessive regulations, petty pedantic attacks online etc... The war extends well beyond the board!
Lose one queen and it is a disaster, Lose 1000 queens and it is just a statistic.

Kevin O'Rourke
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Re: Digital clock repairs

Post by Kevin O'Rourke » Tue May 25, 2021 1:48 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 9:15 am
NickFaulks wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 9:05 am
Kevin O'Rourke wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 8:59 am
We don't want to know exactly how much time we have
This could be the start of a whole new topic.
I've had a thought. Would chess be more fun if clocks didn't actually show the times at all, just informed you when someone has run out of it?
no need for that. I just meant the flag hanging was sufficient at showing how much time there is left.

Paul McKeown
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Re: Digital clock repairs

Post by Paul McKeown » Tue May 25, 2021 6:02 pm

Kevin O'Rourke wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 9:11 am
Paul McKeown wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 8:07 pm
Kevin O'Rourke wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 8:59 am
There is no stop after the 34 moves as the clock is auto adjusted.
Analogue clocks don't stop and auto-adjust after 34 moves, either. You're babbling.

that's my point. you have to stop and adjust them which is a GOOD thing.
At this point, I think it is clear that you are being deliberately obtuse.

You can set a digital clock to one time control equal in length to the first time control. When you have reached this time control, you pause the clock and manually set the clock back with the addition of whatever time is required for the second time control.

This has been explained carefully to you, but you deliberately ignore it in order to bleat on foolishly about not wanting digital clocks because they CAN BUT DO NOT HAVE TO count moves and automatically add the second time control.

I think until you are prepared to admit this, despite your determination to hang on to your ignorance out of raw prejudice, then there is no point in you adding further to this thread.

Kevin O'Rourke
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Re: Digital clock repairs

Post by Kevin O'Rourke » Wed May 26, 2021 9:28 am

Paul McKeown wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 6:02 pm
Kevin O'Rourke wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 9:11 am
Paul McKeown wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 8:07 pm


Analogue clocks don't stop and auto-adjust after 34 moves, either. You're babbling.

that's my point. you have to stop and adjust them which is a GOOD thing.
At this point, I think it is clear that you are being deliberately obtuse.

You can set a digital clock to one time control equal in length to the first time control. When you have reached this time control, you pause the clock and manually set the clock back with the addition of whatever time is required for the second time control.

This has been explained carefully to you, but you deliberately ignore it in order to bleat on foolishly about not wanting digital clocks because they CAN BUT DO NOT HAVE TO count moves and automatically add the second time control.

I think until you are prepared to admit this, despite your determination to hang on to your ignorance out of raw prejudice, then there is no point in you adding further to this thread.
no i'm not. Just saying the analogue clocks are all we need unless there is increments.

the 34 move thing that's not how it's done. all 6 clocks are set to the auto add the time at 34 moves and there is no stopping after 34 moves in the league games. It would be odd if only my clock was set to that and everyone else's didn't need adjusting.

anyway, end of discussion.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Digital clock repairs

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed May 26, 2021 10:50 am

Kevin O'Rourke wrote:
Wed May 26, 2021 9:28 am
all 6 clocks are set to the auto add the time at 34 moves and there is no stopping after 34 moves in the league games.
That's actually the more complex way of doing it, requiring use of user programmed settings (on DGTs at least). A more usual preference is just to set the clock to add extra time after 75 minutes or whatever time period defines the first control.

J T Melsom
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Re: Digital clock repairs

Post by J T Melsom » Wed May 26, 2021 9:06 pm

Mr O'Rourke may not have put up the strongest case for retaining the old analogue clocks, but there is no doubt that adjusting to new clocks and new rates of play isn't easy for many players. I like the digital clocks and some of the incremental time settings that they permit, but I do wonder about the waste that arises from replacing old clocks before their time. Does the impact on landfill matter?

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John Upham
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Re: Digital clock repairs

Post by John Upham » Thu May 27, 2021 9:07 am

J T Melsom wrote:
Wed May 26, 2021 9:06 pm
Mr O'Rourke may not have put up the strongest case for retaining the old analogue clocks, but there is no doubt that adjusting to new clocks and new rates of play isn't easy for many players. I like the digital clocks and some of the incremental time settings that they permit, but I do wonder about the waste that arises from replacing old clocks before their time. Does the impact on landfill matter?
I doubt that many analogue clocks have found their way to landfill.

Ours were donated to local school chess clubs, some members have take them home and some have been sold on eBay.

If your club has sent your analogue clocks to landfill perhaps you could post here of how many?
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Kevin O'Rourke
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Re: Digital clock repairs

Post by Kevin O'Rourke » Thu May 27, 2021 10:02 am

When I first saw the flag and how it worked I was a little kid just learning the rules. Thought the concept was neat so you know when the time runs out. also the 1993 broadcast they never shut up about the "clock flag hanging" close to time controls.

Suppose there are more important things to worry about but give me analogue everytime if the choice is there.

:-)

J T Melsom
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Re: Digital clock repairs

Post by J T Melsom » Thu May 27, 2021 11:25 am

John Upham - that is fair comment. We have not disposed of ours at Wycombe & Hazlemere, but then the league still permits their use. I'm not sure we would find a new home for them quite as easily as you suggest, but those you have suggested are some of the options.

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Re: Digital clock repairs

Post by Paul McKeown » Fri May 28, 2021 5:09 pm

J T Melsom wrote:
Wed May 26, 2021 9:06 pm
Mr O'Rourke may not have put up the strongest case for retaining the old analogue clocks, but there is no doubt that adjusting to new clocks and new rates of play isn't easy for many players. I like the digital clocks and some of the incremental time settings that they permit, but I do wonder about the waste that arises from replacing old clocks before their time. Does the impact on landfill matter?
I absolutely agree with the idea that it can be difficult to adjust to the use of digital clocks, and I even said this was my personal experiemce much earlier in this thread.

The user interface on any product or service using chess can almost be guaranteed to be a bolt on to achieve the necessary functionality with the minimum of cost and effort, resulting in usability nightmares. (One can think of Swiss Mangler, err Swiss Manager, I mean, as a notorious example, but there are many others.) For the developers, issues of cost dominate, as the costs that chess players, clubs, schools and national federations are prepared to sink into chess equipment and services is quite limited. So once the necessary core functionality is developed, the user interface that grew to support the implementation of the core functionality tends to be what is given to the end user. And, no doubt, the developers wonder what the fuss is about: I press this, this and this, voilà, what's the mithering for? Not only the cost factors, but I also suspect that most chess players with an IT background are back-enders, the mysteries of the front-end destined to remain as such for ever.

Not only the user interface, but the user documentation, help, support and fault reporting systems, are likely to be see as a cost to be minimised rather than an opportunity to develop links with the user community.

Regarding the waste, that was one reason I have been trying to find out if anyone has information regarding the repair of DGT Easy Plus clocks. The environmental cost of scrapping digital clocks is almost always going to be higher than that of scrapping old analogue clocks, due to the materials used (copper, perhaps gold for circuitry and contacts, rather than steel for the clockwork, etc.)

Moreover John Upham has given you the answer that I would have: schools, children, old club members, etc., will all be happy to take over working analogue clocks. If you wish to upgrade to digital clocks and have a stock of old analogue clocks that you don't know what to do with, then RIchmond Juniors (or any of scores of junior chess clubs around the country will be able to help you - ask Malcolm Pein for one). The same applies if you are upgrading from first generation digital clocks to more modern ones.

EDIT: bad grammar from a cut and paste debacle corrected
Last edited by Paul McKeown on Fri May 28, 2021 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

J T Melsom
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Re: Digital clock repairs

Post by J T Melsom » Fri May 28, 2021 7:31 pm

Thanks Paul, my remark wasn't as well thought out as usual, but establishing there is a genuine market for second hand clocks in schools is a useful thing to learn. I'm not sure there are any suitable junior clubs in Bucks, but as you say CSC would be able to advise. Not all adult clubs can afford to up-grade either, so there is also scope to pass sideways. This isn't the only area where clubs are not always smart with disposal. We have over the years received old chess books from former members, which seem to be of limited interest and just seem to remain in the cupboard, orderly disposal being another task on the administrative list. Not to mention the chess equipment sitting in the garage which ended up with me, when the previous curator moved house :)

Stewart Reuben
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Re: Digital clock repairs

Post by Stewart Reuben » Thu Jun 03, 2021 7:50 pm

Please note, digital clocks do NOT have move counters. They have push counters. Often the clock button is incorrectly pushed.
Last edited by Stewart Reuben on Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

David Sedgwick
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Re: Digital clock repairs

Post by David Sedgwick » Thu Jun 03, 2021 10:39 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote:
Thu Jun 03, 2021 7:50 pm
Please note, digital locks do NOT have move counters.
:lol:

Mick Norris
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Re: Digital clock repairs

Post by Mick Norris » Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:42 am

Joseph Conlon wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 11:39 am
Paul McKeown wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 12:47 am
With Richmond Juniors, I am now exploring how best (i.e. cost effectively) to upgrade our stock of digital clocks to DGT 3000s and to acquire digital boards for use in our tournaments. They have dropped in price, and the cabling involved has become a little easier with the availability of USB and Bluetooth options. I would be delighted if the ECF were to institute some sort of finance scheme or bulk purchase to help clubs furnish themselves with electronic boards - who knows maybe some passing ECF bod might read this and pick up on the idea (I would certainly vote for someone standing on such a platform).
Is there a particular reason for DGT 3000s rather than DGT 2010s? I ask as I am using receipts from the junior rapid plays I am running currently to build up an equipment stock to avoid having to borrow too much, and I am wondering if there is a reason to justify the extra £20 a time for a DGT 3000.
Hi Joseph, what did you decide to do in the end?

The MCF has quite a few DGT 2010s of which a number have stopped working; if I am reading this thread correctly, repaiiring them isn't an option

It was suggested that buying more of these wasn't a good idea, so we should go for the DGT 3000s instead; in which case, where's the best place to source this, if we need to order, say 30 or so?
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