English Chess Forum

I always turn it off where possible - I used to fall for it quite a bit on the old ChessCube, where I'd just click ok in the middle of a 3 minute game, not realising what it was and next news is my opponent would have his lost queen back on the board.

Idiotic thing to have on any Chess site in my opinion, I'd laugh in the face of anyone who asked to take a move back in a congress game, as I think most people would, so why is online any different?

Like most of us, I've been playing a lot of online in recent times, but its certainly no substitute for the real thing (and engine cheating seems rife). Roll on the end of lock down, I can't wait to get back to it.

Jon Mahony wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:26 pm

why is online any different?

Because there are mouseslips and fingerslips in online, they happen to everybody at every level and there is no real equivalent OTB.

But how do you validate the intent of the player?
If you are a super GM, you probably can tell if it's an honest mistake / mouseslip.
But at other levels? Too often a player plays a move and only realises he is hanging a piece or falling to a tactic or made a positional mistake. He suddenly asks for a takeback.
In my opinion, the fairest way is to reject all takebacks.

By the way, most sites allow to move the pieces by 2 clicks rather than drag and drop, should reasonably limit mistakes.

Wadih Khoury wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:59 pm

But at other levels? Too often a player plays a move and only realises he is hanging a piece or falling to a tactic or made a positional mistake. He suddenly asks for a takeback.
In my opinion, the fairest way is to reject all takebacks. .

Or in casual play, you can use your judgment

JustinHorton wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:34 pm

Jon Mahony wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:26 pm

why is online any different?

Because there are mouseslips and fingerslips in online, they happen to everybody at every level and there is no real equivalent OTB.

Tough old world ain't it, we are all subject to the same mistakes, personally if I'd slipped with my mouse I wouldn't ask to take a move back, I'd resign.

True there is no real equivalent OTB. If OTB you want put a Queen on d6 then you put on d6, not d7.

But it's also impossible to make an illegal move online (no Knight mouse slips! or mutual T.T. pawn jumps h5-h7 )
so maybe there might be something in a one move take-back allowed, but it must also incur a time penalty.

I'd never ask take a move back and have never met a request to take a move back.
(I always switch off in game chat.)

Mouse slips are briefly frustrating, all depends how seriously you take blitz chess.
To me it's always been a form or relaxing, cartoon chess. Good fun win. lose or draw.

Hi Wadih,

The two clicks method, though slower is probably the best solution to persistent mouse slips.

Jon Mahony wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:28 pm

JustinHorton wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:34 pm

Jon Mahony wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:26 pm

why is online any different?

Because there are mouseslips and fingerslips in online, they happen to everybody at every level and there is no real equivalent OTB.

Tough old world ain't it, we are all subject to the same mistakes, personally if I'd slipped with my mouse I wouldn't ask to take a move back, I'd resign.

Yes, well "everybody should do the same as me" is perhaps advice too easily given, in these parts as much as anywhere

Here's another point.

When you're playing with a board and pieces, you can take back moves if you want, and many people do. Perhaps they're playing with a kid, or just with a friend, wither way perhaps they don't want to spoil a game they were previously enjoying, or perhaps it's just their game, not yours, and how they play it is none of your damned business.

This is trivially done with a board and pieces, but not so trivially if people are playing on the internet. Unless you have a takeback function, which suddenly becomes very useful indeed.

For a casual game, of course. Anyone can do whatever they want in a casual game with a friend.

But for a rated or a tournament game, I would disagree. These games do not exist in isolation, and by allowing players to fix their mistakes, you are impacting other players too.

What you are also forgetting is the disruptive effect on the other player of a takeback. Especially for juniors. Now they have to spend time thinking "Is that a honest mistake? Am I a bad guy if I don't accept? But what if he is cheating? But I don't want to be a bad guy. But did he see or not that he would get forked? But what else will he play? What if he uses another piece? etc.." So now the other player has their concentration smashed.

This is why to avoid this I gave him a simple rule "no takeback for you or others."

Wadih Khoury wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:13 am

But for a rated or a tournament game, I would disagree....What you are also forgetting is the disruptive effect on the other player of a takeback.

Well not really, no, as it's basically asual games I'm talking about. (Though in principle I don't see that it should be inconceivable to have the function available for rated games if both players were amenable.)

Somewhat ironically, I think this discussion in substance has considerable overlap to the one on touch-move and castling.

A player starts 1. Nf3 2. g3 3. Bg2 4. Kf1 and then asks for a take back.

Other than technology, this seems morally the same as the example where a player picks up the King, drops it on f1, immediately picks it up and completes castling.

My own policy is never accept takebacks in bullet, but generally to do so for blitz + rapid for obvious mouse slips such as the above, but not for blunders, and generally never in time scrambles (where time pressure on moving is part of zero increment blitz).

JustinHorton wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:49 am

or perhaps it's just their game, not yours, and how they play it is none of your damned business.

Chess.com have always seemed to be on a crusade to make us all play chess their way, and I doubt that is going to change. I believe Tornelo would be more inclined to make changes which reflect what their users want.

What I have seen in arena games is a player ‘passing’ in the face of the opponent’s obvious mouse slip. So white plays Qd7, obviously intending Qxd8, so black plays, say Kh8, allowing white to continue with Qd7xd8. Most (black) players just take the queen on d7, so no obligation, and no need for take back requests. I had one opponent who let their clock run down, presumably in a huff, when I did not observe this particular nicety. I guess arena games are usually no more than casual, and I would not advocate this practice in competition.

JustinHorton wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:20 am

Wadih Khoury wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:13 am

But for a rated or a tournament game, I would disagree....What you are also forgetting is the disruptive effect on the other player of a takeback.

Well not really, no, as it's basically asual games I'm talking about. (Though in principle I don't see that it should be inconceivable to have the function available for rated games if both players were amenable.)

Actually I misunderstood in the same way Wadih did. I guess casual means different things to different people.

I think my definition of whether I'm playing seriously is whether or not there is a clock, real or virtual. If there is, no takebacks requested or given. If not, fine. I might also give odds, offer to make a cup of tea, etc too which I would not in a serious game.

I don't know why that is my definition of serious. I suppose other people have different criteria.

I'm not sure I agree with Nick on chess.com motivations. I've always thought of them as the most straightforwardly commercial of the sites. So if there is money in it, they do it. If not, not.

In this position:


Black blunders with ... Nd7. White plays Qd6+, then asks for a takeback on the grounds that it was a mouseslip and he was in the act of playing Qxd7 Mate.

Consider your reaction to this request.

Then look at the Twitter feed at https://twitter.com/chesstutor/status/1 ... 5684241408.