Under Statement?

Discuss anything you like about chess related matters in this forum.
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JustinHorton
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Re: Under Statement?

Post by JustinHorton » Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:26 pm

John Moore wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:18 pm
Geoff is, of course, always pleasant in his posts
Well unless for instance one holds the view that suggesting repeatedly that a piece written by an anonymous woman was probably written by a man constitutes obnoxious conduct. But it is often curious what other people think is polite and what they think is not.
John Moore wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:18 pm
it is unfair to suggest that he produces nothing
Outwith the subject presently under discussion, I do not think I have.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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John Moore
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Re: Under Statement?

Post by John Moore » Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:30 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:40 pm
Geoff Chandler wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:17 pm
This is the kind of argument in an empty house that I am normally credited with.
No, it's the usual nothing-to-see-here that you usually do
This is what you said, Justin.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Under Statement?

Post by JustinHorton » Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:56 pm

And what do you think "nothing to see here" means, John
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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David Sedgwick
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Re: Under Statement?

Post by David Sedgwick » Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:39 pm

John Townsend wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 4:25 pm
Apparently, Philidor was on a list of émigrés. Only a few weeks ago, I spent an hour or so on Google Books flogging through Liste générale par ordre alphabétique des émigrés de toute la République, published in 1793 in umpteen volumes. I gave up without finding him. Possibly, the 1793 edition was too early, or perhaps I didn't look in the right places.
IM Jack Rudd wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 4:35 pm
If 1793 were too early, your timescale would be very tight, because Philidor died in 1795.
Sometimes it helps to suspend the automatic denigration of Keene's articles on this Forum and actually to read what he has to say:

From RDK's "Transgender Chess" article:

"Finally, after returning to London in May 1793, although [Philidor] went with a passport, not as a refugee, he was listed as an émigré and never managed to reach home before his death, in August 1795. Although he fully expected to obtain the travel permits, his last known letter in 1795, rather sadly, explains what were his plans and ambitions after his longed-for arrival in Paris, which never took place."

Eales is clearly Keene's source here, as the former covered the point at the FFE Conference.

I asked Eales how Philidor's experience of the British authorities on arriving in London as an asylum seeker in 1793 compared with the more recent experiences of Mihai Suba in 1988 and Shohreh Bayat in 2020. My question fell rather flat when Eales explained that Philidor wasn't actually an asylum seeker when he arrived at all.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Under Statement?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:51 am

David Sedgwick wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:39 pm
I asked Eales how Philidor's experience of the British authorities on arriving in London as an asylum seeker in 1793 compared with the more recent experiences of Mihai Suba in 1988 and Shohreh Bayat in 2020.
I don't know whether 1988 counts as history yet. Perhaps it does if the fall of the Berlin Wall is treated as an end point. In 1988 would asylum seekers have been a relative rarity and if fleeing from Communism regarded as welcome ?

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JustinHorton
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Re: Under Statement?

Post by JustinHorton » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:02 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:51 am
David Sedgwick wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:39 pm
I asked Eales how Philidor's experience of the British authorities on arriving in London as an asylum seeker in 1793 compared with the more recent experiences of Mihai Suba in 1988 and Shohreh Bayat in 2020.
I don't know whether 1988 counts as history yet. Perhaps it does if the fall of the Berlin Wall is treated as an end point. In 1988 would asylum seekers have been a relative rarity and if fleeing from Communism regarded as welcome ?
Here's a GCSE syllabus which takes us as far as 2009. (I occasionally have the experience on Twitter of seeing footage on accounts devoted to football history of matches I personally attended, which amuses me, though not as much as going to a museum in Suffolk and seeing a dial phone as one of the exhibits on display. Some of the younger attendees had no idea what it was: we have one in our bedroom.)
David Sedgwick wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:39 pm
Sometimes it helps to suspend the automatic denigration of Keene's articles on this Forum

Poor Ray. Poor, denigrated Ray.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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John Townsend
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Re: Under Statement?

Post by John Townsend » Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:54 am

David Sedgwick wrote:
Sometimes it helps to suspend the automatic denigration of Keene's articles on this Forum and actually to read what he has to say:
I was surprised by the tone of David Sedgwick's response to my enquiry about Philidor, which, I can assure him, was perfectly innocent. He quoted a brief exchange between Jack Rudd and myself. Where in that does he see the "automatic denigration of Keene's articles" of which he complains?

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Re: Under Statement?

Post by Geoff Chandler » Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:03 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:39 pm
Sometimes it helps to suspend the automatic denigration of Keene's articles on this Forum
OOPS! that will be me. (the empty house syndrome) I honestly never knew the brother-in-law connection.

I like Ray, a bit disappointed at the copying etc, Disappointed in the fact I often defend him and he insists
on occasionally giving those that don't like him ammunition. Though in this case they are firing blanks.

It's the 'empty house syndrome' again, Ray builds empty houses and others move in.

I follow Ray's column in 'The Article' It's good. Usually give 100% except for 'Agree With Arguments' as
he sometimes slips into French or Latin or uses big words that gives my brain thesaurus the yips.
so I hedge with a 2, 3 or 4 in case I am agreeing with something I do not agree with.
NickFaulks wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:03 pm
Please don't do that, I've just wasted fifteen minutes re-reading them.
(follow the links I gave to Edward Winter's site.)

Well done Nick, (phew) I got a quarter the way down on each piece before giving up.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Under Statement?

Post by JustinHorton » Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:10 pm

Geoff Chandler wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:03 pm
he insists on occasionally giving those that don't like him ammunition.
Regularly and consistently over a period of more than forty years, giving everybody with an ounce of self-respect plenty of time to understand what he is and why he should be avoided.

(Of course people do understand what he is. But over that long period they also chose not to avoid him. And that's your ethical history of English chess )
Last edited by JustinHorton on Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Under Statement?

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:36 pm

"(Of course people do understand what he is. But over that long period they also chose not to avoid him. And that's your ethical history of Englush chess )"

Just out of idle curiosity, do you think there are other worthwhile targets in English chess? There have been dodgy financial deals, favouring of some players at the expense of others, child abuse and support of child abuse etc...

Edited to put in the missing word...
Last edited by Kevin Thurlow on Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Under Statement?

Post by JustinHorton » Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:18 pm

Not sure I grasp your question
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Under Statement?

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:21 pm

If you add the word chess, which I accidentally omitted...

"Just out of idle curiosity, do you think there are other worthwhile targets in English chess?"

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JustinHorton
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Re: Under Statement?

Post by JustinHorton » Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:29 pm

No, I assumed the chess, I just didn't see on what premise the question was based.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

David Sedgwick
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Re: Under Statement?

Post by David Sedgwick » Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:10 pm

John Townsend wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:54 am
David Sedgwick wrote:
Sometimes it helps to suspend the automatic denigration of Keene's articles on this Forum and actually to read what he has to say:
I was surprised by the tone of David Sedgwick's response to my enquiry about Philidor, which, I can assure him, was perfectly innocent. He quoted a brief exchange between Jack Rudd and myself. Where in that does he see the "automatic denigration of Keene's articles" of which he complains?
John, I was indeed a bit unfair.

It appeared to me that the answer to your question was to be found in Keene's article and I jumped to the conclusion that you had not read it. I apologise if that was not correct.

I accept that "automatic denigration" is something which I should have attributed to others, not to you.

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Re: Under Statement?

Post by David Sedgwick » Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:12 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:02 am
Poor Ray. Poor, denigrated Ray.
I expect that he will survive.

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