How would a game against yourself go?

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NigelDonovan
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How would a game against yourself go?

Post by NigelDonovan » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:41 pm

By which I mean, what position have you had as both White and Black in your games, after the most moves.



I've had this position as both White and Black. Not to everyone's taste, perhaps... I won with Black and lost with White - typical.

Tim Spanton
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Re: How would a game against yourself go?

Post by Tim Spanton » Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:45 pm

OK.
Here is how far I can get (1,940 games as White; 1,929 as Black), each move being my commonest choice in the position: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Nf6 4.Nc3 Bb4 5.0-0 0-0 6.Bg5 Bxc3 7.bxc3 h6 8.Bh4 Bg4
That is as far as I can get as I have not had the resulting position as White.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: How would a game against yourself go?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:32 pm

Sixteen times (10 White, 6 Black) including transpositions I've reached the position arising after

1. Nf3 Nf6 2. g3 g6 3. Bg2 Bg7 4. 0-0 0-0 5. d4 d6 6. c4 Nc6 7. Nc3 a6 8. d5 Na5 9. Nd2 b5 10. b3 Rb8 11. Bb2 b5 12. Qc2

That's perhaps not a complete surprise given that it was featured more than fifty years ago as a main line in the Keene, Hartston, Barden Batsford on the Kings Indian.

With White I had 5 wins, 1 draw and 4 losses and with Black 1 win, 2 draws and 3 losses.

Given the overall lack of success, I've mostly gone for earlier divergences.

The "raw" position arises at White's 7th. I've had that 42 times.

The following game is one of them and shows why people persist in playing the Kings Indian. White gangs up on and captures the pawn on a6 only to find his King mated after a sacrifice.


Kevin Thurlow
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Re: How would a game against yourself go?

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:54 pm

Back in 1988 in the Redhill club championship final, I had the white side of a Sveshnikov Sicilian in the penultimate game and played the 11.Bxb5 idea used a lot by John Nunn, and duly won. In the last game, I had the black side, but my opponent (who had not seen the previous game) tried Bd3 instead (whilst my previous opponent waited forlornly to see what I would do after Bxb5, axb5, Nxb5). I won that one as well.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: How would a game against yourself go?

Post by LawrenceCooper » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:35 pm

For me it would be a Ruy Lopez Marshall Attack (albeit many years ago). Probably around move 18 although the transpositions are a bit confusing so not sure if I can go any higher.

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Be7 6. Re1 b5 7. Bb3 O-O 8. c3
d5 9. exd5 Nxd5 10. Nxe5 Nxe5 11. Rxe5 c6 12. d4 Bd6 13. Re1 Qh4 14. g3 Qh3 15.
Be3 Bg4 16. Qd3 Rae8 17. Nd2 Re6 18. a4

has happened twice with white where f5 and bxa4 were tried whereas with black I played Qh5. 17...Re6 and f5 tranpositions are a bit confusing but can't see anything identical after that.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: How would a game against yourself go?

Post by LawrenceCooper » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:41 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:35 pm
For me it would probably be a Ruy Lopez Marshall Attack (albeit many years ago). Probably around move 18 although the transpositions are a bit confusing so not sure if I can go any higher.

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Be7 6. Re1 b5 7. Bb3 O-O 8. c3
d5 9. exd5 Nxd5 10. Nxe5 Nxe5 11. Rxe5 c6 12. d4 Bd6 13. Re1 Qh4 14. g3 Qh3 15.
Be3 Bg4 16. Qd3 Rae8 17. Nd2 Re6 18. a4

has happened twice with white where f5 (1985) and bxa4 (1991) were tried whereas with black I played Qh5 (1985). 17...Re6 and f5 tranpositions are a bit confusing but can't see anything identical after that.

Nick Grey
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Re: How would a game against yourself go?

Post by Nick Grey » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:05 pm

For me it would be the old main line dragon in my junior days so around move 18-19.

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JustinHorton
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Re: How would a game against yourself go?

Post by JustinHorton » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:38 am

Ha ha how embarrassing. I guess it's a demonstration of how often I've changed my openings, or at least particularly when it comes to queenside openings which are what I've played as White since the early and mid-Nineties. I might be wrong but I don't know that I've even reached (restricting myself to recorded and competitive OTB games) double figures on both sides of the board. The furthest that I'm absolutely stone cold certain that I've got is here.

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MartinCarpenter
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Re: How would a game against yourself go?

Post by MartinCarpenter » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:23 am

JustinHorton wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:38 am
Ha ha how embarrassing. I guess it's a demonstration of how often I've changed my openings, or at least particularly when it comes to queenside openings which are what I've played as White since the early and mid-Nineties. I might be wrong but I don't know that I've even reached (restricting myself to recorded and competitive OTB games) double figures on both sides of the board. The furthest that I'm absolutely stone cold certain that I've got is here.
Suspect quite normal :) I only get to move 8 or so as black, and that only in one game, despite moderate consistency and potentially quite deep overlap. Up to a certain level in UK club chess its really very hard to get main lines on the board.

I do also try to play a few things/not repeat against the same people, so I can't actually say how a game against myself would go. Probably 1/2 - 1/2 on move 1 ;)

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JustinHorton
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Re: How would a game against yourself go?

Post by JustinHorton » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:25 am

By the way it occurs to me this might be an interesting exercise to carry out with regard to world-class players past and present. Would it show a peak (in terms of moves) perhaps in the late Nineties before the computers took over and everybody had to diversify, or would it be perhaps many decades prior to that, perhaps before the postwar expansion of opening theory?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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Peter Shaw
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Re: How would a game against yourself go?

Post by Peter Shaw » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:48 am

I know I have made it to move 14 because it was in consecutive games, possibly I've gone further. Kasparov and Karpov made it to move 21 in consecutive games in their first match.

Ian Thompson
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Re: How would a game against yourself go?

Post by Ian Thompson » Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:00 pm

I don't know of any easy was of searching for this, other than putting in a possible position and seeing what the results are.

I got to move 10, but only because I played something as Black I'd prepared for a particular opponent and don't normally play as Black.

Paul Cooksey
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Re: How would a game against yourself go?

Post by Paul Cooksey » Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:29 pm

I have had this position a lot of times with both colours. But none of my white and black games align very deeply.


Oddly I think the line that Roger mentioned is the deepest I can get with both colours. Odd because I only really play it with white, but decided to play it as a one off against someone I knew would allow it when I wanted a sharp game.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: How would a game against yourself go?

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:12 pm

My repertoires for White and Black are almost totally different :)

One of the few things they have in common is the Italian Game, so I suspect my "record" is to be found somewhere there.
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

Roger de Coverly
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Re: How would a game against yourself go?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:22 pm

Matt Mackenzie wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:12 pm
My repertoires for White and Black are almost totally different
I've had this tabiya in the English with both colours.


and also the reversed version as a slightly off beat Closed Sicilian


I usually actively avoid being White in the English version, but I'm prepared to play it as Black and the Closed Sicilian version with both colours.

I also have an anti-Marshall that I've played with both colours to about move 15.

The advantage of paying the same position from both sides is that you ought to be familiar with the ideas. The downside is that you may find yourself losing regardless, indicating a lack of understanding of the relevant moves and positions.

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