English Chess Forum

"You do have to wonder what sort of people are playing actual money for this "fat Fritz" if it is based on stolen code from two FREE engines, especially given that programmers that operate in this way rarely improve on their source material."

People who did not think it was "based on stolen code...."?

Paul Robert Jackson wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 20, 2021 1:04 pm

Didn't Rybka get into some sort of similar controversy
"Allegations have surfaced that Rybka 1.0 beta and other versions of Rybka are derivatives of Fruit 2.1 and Crafty."
www.chessprogramming.org/Rybka_Controversy

as previously mentioned
....this has happend before.

Joey Stewart wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:49 pm

The nice thing in this case is that it is a victimless crime, as all parties involved are responsible for causing irreparable damage to the game I am happy to see all of them lose out.

You do have to wonder what sort of people are playing actual money for this "fat Fritz" if it is based on stolen code from two FREE engines, especially given that programmers that operate in this way rarely improve on their source material.

Well, things like a decent UI, support and a totally hassle free installation process would be counted as worthwhile by some people. Like Redhat & friends do with Linux.

I have no idea how well this program does any of that of course! The lack of honesty isn't a great look.

Legal action:
https://stockfishchess.org/blog/2021/ou ... chessbase/

Not sure who I want to see lose the most in that lawsuit - is there a scenario where both companies can come out at a loss??

Joey Stewart wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:10 pm

is there a scenario where both companies can come out at a loss??

Generally the case when lawyers are involved.

Joey Stewart wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:10 pm

Not sure who I want to see lose the most in that lawsuit - is there a scenario where both companies can come out at a loss??

Stockfish aren't even a company, just an open source software project.

Given how Chessbase behaved they're well within their moral rights to choose to stop sharing their free software with them.

I can see enforcing it being slightly tricky given they've open sourced the software to anyone, and other people can then choose to share it with Chessbase etc. They must have written a 'Chessbase totally banned' clause in somewhere.

Chessbase do have form when it comes to other people's material. I have been told by reliable sources that people have published annotated games, and then when the next "Bigbase" or whatever comes out, the games plus word-for-word annotations come out, with the annotator listed as "Chessbase". One writer started using really weird phrases as a test, e.g. "A real Clint Eastwood move", not just something like "Rg6 is the principled move".

Do we have a source for this

JustinHorton wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:13 am

Do we have a source for this

Assuming the author of the annotations didn't give ChessBase permission to publish them, the evidence can be found in Thompson-Thurlow, British Championship, 1997, which is annotated by "ChessBase". It includes the annotation "(Quiet, does n't seem to do a lot - but very strong - a real Clint Eastwood of a move - ed)".

It's not even subtle plagiarism. Another annotation says "(This was the moment I arrived at the board, and began wondering how Kevin's Queen got to h4 - ed)". I wasn't aware that ChessBase were present at the 1997 British Championship.

How interesting. Where's the original?

Here we go:



[Event "BCF-ch 84th"] [Site "Hove"] [Date "1997.08.07"] [Round "4"] [White "Thompson, Ian D"] [Black "Thurlow, Kevin J"] [Result "0-1"] [ECO "A36"] [WhiteElo "2260"] [BlackElo "2205"] [Annotator "ChessBase"] [PlyCount "84"] [EventDate "1997.08.04"] [EventType "swiss"] [EventRounds "11"] [EventCountry "ENG"] [SourceTitle "EXT 1999"] [Source "ChessBase"] [SourceDate "1998.11.16"] [SourceVersion "1"] [SourceVersionDate "1998.11.16"] [SourceQuality "1"] {[%evp 0,84,19,-12,-9,-12,28,8,16,-15,17,-18,-22,-12,-7,-18,-12,-23,-6,-17,-6, 3,2,-73,-88,-85,-33,-55,-61,-48,-42,-48,-4,-13,-20,-4,21,21,21,-23,72,21,31,53, 43,43,0,0,36,60,52,68,68,68,69,76,101,86,61,70,139,128,114,78,32,40,36,-13,25, -125,-20,-49,-299,-204,-299,-440,-624,-990,-1146,-1324,-1273,-1367,-1634,-1906, -2532,-29999,-30000]} 1. c4 Nf6 2. Nc3 c5 3. g3 Nc6 4. Bg2 g6 5. e4 Bg7 6. Nge2 O-O 7. O-O a6 8. d3 d6 9. h3 Rb8 10. Be3 (10. a4 {to restrain b5 is the book move}) 10... b5 11. Qd2 $2 ({The text is an outright blunder;} 11. cxb5 axb5 12. d4 {was Fritz4's energetic suggestion}) 11... bxc4 12. d4 (12. dxc4 Ne5 $1 13. b3 Bxh3 $1 {leaves White a pawn down. If White then tries} 14. f4 Bxg2 15. fxe5 Nxe4 $1 $19) 12... cxd4 13. Nxd4 Nxd4 14. Bxd4 Qa5 15. Rfd1 Qh5 16. g4 Qh4 17. Ba7 Rb7 18. Be3 h6 19. Rab1 Rc7 20. f4 {(This was the moment I arrived at the board, and began wondering how Kevin's Queen got to h4 - ed)} Bxg4 21. Bf2 Qh5 22. hxg4 Nxg4 23. Nd5 Rb7 24. e5 $6 dxe5 $1 25. Nf6+ Bxf6 26. Bxb7 Qh2+ 27. Kf1 exf4 28. Bg1 Qh3+ 29. Qg2 Ne3+ 30. Bxe3 Qxe3 31. Bd5 e6 $1 32. Bxc4 f3 { (It's hard to see exactly why, but White's position is a total ruin. Fritz4 thinks White is better!)} 33. Qf2 Qf4 34. Bxa6 Bh4 35. Qg1 ({Probably better is } 35. Qc2 Qg3 36. Rd2 Ra8 {is still a very strong attack for Black. After the text, Black unleashes a very forceful series of moves}) 35... Rc8 $1 36. Bd3 Bg3 $3 {(Quiet, does n't seem to do a lot - but very strong - a real Clint Eastwood of a move - ed)} 37. Qh1 Rc5 $1 {Playing this move my opponent said : “I know what you're thinking. Did he fire six shots or only five? Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I've kinda lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk?”} (37... Rc2 $5 {was very tempting, putting the rook en prise again but then} 38. Bxc2 Qe3 39. Rd8+ $1 Kg7 40. Rd2 $1 Qxd2 41. Qxf3 Qxc2 42. Qc3+ {and it is far from all over}) 38. Qg1 Qg4 {(White can resign here but he soldiered on ...)} 39. Rd2 Qh3+ 40. Rg2 f2 {(Now it's getting embarrassing)} 41. Ke2 Qg4+ 42. Kd2 Bf4# {(A fantastic attack by the dreaded Kjt)} 0-1

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