Film: Late Call

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Phil Neatherway
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Re: Film: Late Call

Post by Phil Neatherway » Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:46 pm

Another Mel Gibson film, The Patriot (2000), has an invented scene in which a church filled with colonists is locked and burned. I once read a book in the American Revolution written by a British historian. He was inspired to write the book because he was so incensed by the rubbish in The Patriot. No doubt there are still many Americans who believe the film was true history.

John McKenna
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Re: Film: Late Call

Post by John McKenna » Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:02 am

There was such a massacre during the American Revolutionary War (1775-83) -

"The Gnadenhutten massacre, also known as the Moravian massacre, was the killing of 96 Christian Lenape by U.S. militiamen from Pennsylvania on March 8, 1782 at the Moravian missionary village of Gnadenhutten, Ohio during the American Revolutionary War...

In early March 1782, the Lenape were surprised by a raiding party of 160 Pennsylvania militia led by Lieutenant Colonel David Williamson. The American militia rounded up the Christian Lenape and accused them of taking part in raids into Pennsylvania. Although the Lenape denied the charges, the militia held a council and voted to kill them...

The next morning on 8 March, the militia brought the Lenape to one of two "killing houses"...

The militia piled the bodies in the mission buildings and burned the village down..."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnadenhutten_massacre

NB: Lenape is another name for the tribe known as Delawares.

Edit (also from the above Wiki link) -

"Western writer Zane Grey included a fictional treatment of the Gnadenhutten Massacre in his historical novel The Spirit of the Border (1906).

Dancing through Fire (2012) by JoAnn Hague is a novel exploring the events from 1775 to 1782 which culminated in the massacre. Under the working title, Huts of Grace, the book won a 1984 Ohio Arts Council Fellowship Grant in Creative Writing."
Last edited by John McKenna on Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
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JustinHorton
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Re: Film: Late Call

Post by JustinHorton » Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:15 am

Phil Neatherway wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:46 pm
No doubt there are still many Americans who believe the film was true history.
No doubt, but if we're going to discuss fictional scenes in patriotic and nationalist fiction we're going to be in for a long thread
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Phil Neatherway
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Re: Film: Late Call

Post by Phil Neatherway » Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:41 am

John McKenna wrote:
There was such a massacre during the American Revolutionary War (1775-83) -

"The Gnadenhutten massacre, also known as the Moravian massacre, was the killing of 96 Christian Lenape by U.S. militiamen from Pennsylvania on March 8, 1782 at the Moravian missionary village of Gnadenhutten, Ohio during the American Revolutionary War...
Thanks for that, John, I didn't know about that. Which brings us nicely on to the book 'Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee' by Dee Brown. But that's for anpother thread, I think.

ben.graff
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Re: Film: Late Call

Post by ben.graff » Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:19 pm

"Yes loads of errors but only the minority (us chess players) spotted them.
The handful of non-players I know who watched most said they enjoyed it.
I liked it. There are lot worse film out there that I've sat through. (and I knew how it ends!)"

I agree with Geoff on this. There are a lot of mistakes. I found it particularly galling when a studious looking Fischer studied a magazine and then knocked out the intriguing 1. h4 1. h5. Most of the errors could have been avoided. For whatever reason it is just a bit uneven as there are some parts of the film where the chess is better.

That said, Pawn Sacrifice does do a reasonable job of conveying the essence of a man who held it together just long enough to become world champion, but no longer. In many places, while the detail is wrong, the overall feel of the film is right. That's the point of it really. Some of the contemporary footage, particularly at the beginning and the end is quite poignant.

The shame is that it wouldn't have taken much to make this a much better film, but even so, it is not a bad effort.
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Film: Late Call

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:39 pm

ben.graff wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:19 pm
The shame is that it wouldn't have taken much to make this a much better film
I'm not sure why they felt the need to have clocks present and people pressing them during analysis room sequences.

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Re: Film: Late Call

Post by John Upham » Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:58 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:39 pm
ben.graff wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:19 pm
The shame is that it wouldn't have taken much to make this a much better film
I'm not sure why they felt the need to have clocks present and people pressing them during analysis room sequences.
The chess consultant for the film was

Richard Bérubé

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Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Film: Late Call

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:30 pm

"The chess consultant for the film was

Richard Bérubé"

But they might have ignored him!?

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Re: Film: Late Call

Post by John Upham » Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:48 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:30 pm
"The chess consultant for the film was

Richard Bérubé"

But they might have ignored him!?
You may ask him if you wish :

https://www.facebook.com/richard.berube.735
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Re: Film: Late Call

Post by John Upham » Thu Jan 28, 2021 6:04 pm

The films producers also thank Frank Brady for his assistance.
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ben.graff
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Re: Film: Late Call

Post by ben.graff » Thu Jan 28, 2021 6:48 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:30 pm
"The chess consultant for the film was

Richard Bérubé"

But they might have ignored him!?
I'm sure that's right. There are clearly scenes where the chess advisers either weren't consulted or where things were changed late in the day without their knowledge/ endorsement. Equally there are moments where you can see someone who understands the game has been involved.

There is also a grey area where compromises with reality have been made for dramatic effect. For example, in the film Fischer resigns game one immediately after capturing the pawn with his bishop. In the actual game, he played on for over twenty moves. I think on that one, you can see why they went with the more immediate finish. Sadly, not many of the errors can be explained away in this way.
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Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Film: Late Call

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Thu Jan 28, 2021 7:40 pm

"You may ask him if you wish :

https://www.facebook.com/richard.berube.735"

What is facebook? Now, where did I leave that black cap...?

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Re: Film: Late Call

Post by Geoff Chandler » Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:21 pm

Watched 'Pawn Sacrifice' again last night.

Apart from the handful for wrong dates, names which are really harmless to a non-player from whose perspective this must viewed.
(If you want some facts then 'Bobby Fischer versus the Rest of the World.}

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V14gXuzRdp4

The three major errors (IMO) from 'Pawn Sacrifice' which could affect how a non-player sees the game and the match are:

Saying Morphy committed suicide in a bath surrounded by women's shoes.
It appears there are still a number of rated/serious players who think this is true.

Showing more than one game in the Ping-Pong room giving the impression half the match was played there.

But the worst was showing Spassky ripping up his chair to pieces during a game.
That was entirely wrong and needlessly misleading. No need for that scene.

(The one that bugged me as a player was seeing 'Bobby' playing 1.h5- h5 from a Russian Mag.)

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JustinHorton
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Re: Film: Late Call

Post by JustinHorton » Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:32 pm

This is quite an amusing video on the subject of historical verisimilitude in cinema
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Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Film: Late Call

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Wed Feb 03, 2021 6:53 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPGdOXs ... e=youtu.be

That's great - give the guy a TV series!

What about the Robin Hood movie where the enemy used WWII style landing craft to invade?

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