Film: Late Call

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Film: Late Call

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:51 pm

Non-players have also enjoyed Queen's Gambit, however - and that though "fictional" is actually a considerably more accurate portrayal of chess.

(even if not, of course, a flawless one)

This idea (one of its first popularisers was - who else? - RDK) that chess has to be dumbed down so "non-players" will find it palatable is insidious.
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

John Moore
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Re: Film: Late Call

Post by John Moore » Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:57 pm

What would be the possible outcomes of this insidiousness, Matt. How bad could it be.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Film: Late Call

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:02 pm

John Moore wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:57 pm
What would be the possible outcomes of this insidiousness, Matt. How bad could it be.
It makes chess less than what it should be, isn't that enough?
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

John Moore
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Re: Film: Late Call

Post by John Moore » Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:14 pm

Matt Mackenzie wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:02 pm
John Moore wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:57 pm
What would be the possible outcomes of this insidiousness, Matt. How bad could it be.
It makes chess less than what it should be, isn't that enough?
Well, maybe, Matt, I was thinking that anything that makes people think about chess isn't necessarily a bad thing. If that film makes a few more kids want to play chess, maybe that is a good thing.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Film: Late Call

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:50 pm

Can't we talk about actual chess in films?

Geoff Chandler
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Re: Film: Late Call

Post by Geoff Chandler » Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:18 pm

Hi Chris,

I thought quite a few chess players would not like it because of the errors.

It appears we have 'Queens Gambit' fictional but good because the chess scenes were accurate.
v 'Pawn Sacrifice.' based on a true event but bad because of the sadly inaccurate chess scenes.

Solution: Just make up any old story but do get the chess scenes correct.
(the film industry will call this the 'Justin Test.'.. just joking mate...BTW a lad PM'd me their address
and I passed on my doubler of 'The Chess Crisis.' )

My view of 'Pawns Gambit' It's was OK, not brilliant but past muster.

The errors? There are that many myths, legends and fables about Fischer a whole load more won't many any difference.

My View of' Queens Gambit' not seen it. But too many people seem to like it. So I know I won't.
However what it's done with chess and the media coverage I cannot argue with. Excellent!

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Film: Late Call

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:28 am

Geoff Chandler wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:18 pm
It appears we have 'Queens Gambit' fictional but good because the chess scenes were accurate.
v 'Pawn Sacrifice.' based on a true event but bad because of the sadly inaccurate chess scenes.
You wonder to what extent dramatists should be allowed to take liberties with he sequence events when basing their dramas on true stories. That Fischer was "distracted" during a tournament is historic fact but it too place well before 1966. There was an example of events taking place during the lifetime of many members of the forum in "The Crown". Whilst it was true that Mark Thatcher got lost in a desert and Argentine invaded the Falklands, both events taking place in 1982, they were separated by a couple of months and not, as suggested, simultaneous.

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Gerard Killoran
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Re: Film: Late Call

Post by Gerard Killoran » Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:16 am

The French TV Channel Arte has, what seems to be, almost every chess scene in the history of cinema, ending with its top 5.

Warning! It's in French.

https://youtu.be/ujYodJgH2zw

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JustinHorton
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Re: Film: Late Call

Post by JustinHorton » Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:14 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:28 am
You wonder to what extent dramatists should be allowed to take liberties with he sequence events when basing their dramas on true stories.
Well maybe, but what's "allowed" here?

Also bear in mind that whole swathes of TV and cinema, without depicting "true stories" as such, are basically presenting a thoroughly false picture of the socieities in which they are set. (The Western genre is a common example, but many others will do.) The effect is to tell a big lie about how a society works, or worked. Does this matter? What if anything should be done about it? Is this more or less important that the alteration of individual facts for historical purposes? These are all hard questions.
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Geoff Chandler
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Re: Film: Late Call

Post by Geoff Chandler » Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:07 pm

Hi Justin,

The film industry and truth often go in different directions for the sake of a story. The facts are usually boring.
Usually harmless and if anyone is really interested they can look up the facts for themselves.
However sometimes the script becomes 'fact.'

Just a few years ago I heard two girls discussing 'Braveheart' and they really believed Wallace had an affair
with Isabella (who was 9 years old at time) and that Edward I died on the same day that Wallace was executed.

Those Braveheart errors are misleading 'facts'. Not bending the truth for the sake of a story. Total fabrication.
'Pawn Sacrifice' stuck basically to the script. The annoying errors did not really get in the way of what happened.


Braveheart and the film industry.
A good swashbuckling film, loads of errors - won, amongst others, best picture Oscar. That is all the industry is interested in.
In the future I fully expect one day to see the Titanic arriving in New York and Spassky winning in 1972.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Film: Late Call

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:09 pm

"Also bear in mind that whole swathes of TV and cinema, without depicting "true stories" as such, are basically presenting a thoroughly false picture of the socieities in which they are set."

True - I will spare readers a few thousand words on mistakes in Westerns, e.g. the real "Gunfight at OK Corral" lasted about 30 seconds in a very small space... Without picking on Richard Attenborough, "Gandhi" features nasty incidents that never happened, and "10 Rillington Place" invents things as well. People watch the films and get totally the wrong idea. And I understand a televisual delight that I have not seen ("The Crown") has caused much controversy.

But as Geoff says (I think), to some extent you should be grateful that chess is featured at all and if it brings people into the game, they can be educated later.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Film: Late Call

Post by JustinHorton » Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:41 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:09 pm
"Also bear in mind that whole swathes of TV and cinema, without depicting "true stories" as such, are basically presenting a thoroughly false picture of the socieities in which they are set."

True - I will spare readers a few thousand words on mistakes in Westerns, e.g. the real "Gunfight at OK Corral" lasted about 30 seconds in a very small space... Without picking on Richard Attenborough, "Gandhi" features nasty incidents that never happened, and "10 Rillington Place" invents things as well. People watch the films and get totally the wrong idea.
Mmm, but I'm not talking about mistakes as such, nor even invented incidents.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Film: Late Call

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:50 pm

"Mmm, but I'm not talking about mistakes as such, nor even invented incidents."

Indeed, I take the point - you do find modern biases/perspectives on history, but that happens in rea life as well as films.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Film: Late Call

Post by JustinHorton » Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:54 pm

Well yes, but with the Western it's not so much as a perspective as a entire set of myths on every level, no?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Film: Late Call

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:04 pm

"but with the Western it's not so much as a perspective as a entire set of myths on every level, no?"

Yes

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