Film: Late Call
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Re: Film: Late Call
Another Mel Gibson film, The Patriot (2000), has an invented scene in which a church filled with colonists is locked and burned. I once read a book in the American Revolution written by a British historian. He was inspired to write the book because he was so incensed by the rubbish in The Patriot. No doubt there are still many Americans who believe the film was true history.
Re: Film: Late Call
There was such a massacre during the American Revolutionary War (1775-83) -
"The Gnadenhutten massacre, also known as the Moravian massacre, was the killing of 96 Christian Lenape by U.S. militiamen from Pennsylvania on March 8, 1782 at the Moravian missionary village of Gnadenhutten, Ohio during the American Revolutionary War...
In early March 1782, the Lenape were surprised by a raiding party of 160 Pennsylvania militia led by Lieutenant Colonel David Williamson. The American militia rounded up the Christian Lenape and accused them of taking part in raids into Pennsylvania. Although the Lenape denied the charges, the militia held a council and voted to kill them...
The next morning on 8 March, the militia brought the Lenape to one of two "killing houses"...
The militia piled the bodies in the mission buildings and burned the village down..."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnadenhutten_massacre
NB: Lenape is another name for the tribe known as Delawares.
Edit (also from the above Wiki link) -
"Western writer Zane Grey included a fictional treatment of the Gnadenhutten Massacre in his historical novel The Spirit of the Border (1906).
Dancing through Fire (2012) by JoAnn Hague is a novel exploring the events from 1775 to 1782 which culminated in the massacre. Under the working title, Huts of Grace, the book won a 1984 Ohio Arts Council Fellowship Grant in Creative Writing."
"The Gnadenhutten massacre, also known as the Moravian massacre, was the killing of 96 Christian Lenape by U.S. militiamen from Pennsylvania on March 8, 1782 at the Moravian missionary village of Gnadenhutten, Ohio during the American Revolutionary War...
In early March 1782, the Lenape were surprised by a raiding party of 160 Pennsylvania militia led by Lieutenant Colonel David Williamson. The American militia rounded up the Christian Lenape and accused them of taking part in raids into Pennsylvania. Although the Lenape denied the charges, the militia held a council and voted to kill them...
The next morning on 8 March, the militia brought the Lenape to one of two "killing houses"...
The militia piled the bodies in the mission buildings and burned the village down..."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnadenhutten_massacre
NB: Lenape is another name for the tribe known as Delawares.
Edit (also from the above Wiki link) -
"Western writer Zane Grey included a fictional treatment of the Gnadenhutten Massacre in his historical novel The Spirit of the Border (1906).
Dancing through Fire (2012) by JoAnn Hague is a novel exploring the events from 1775 to 1782 which culminated in the massacre. Under the working title, Huts of Grace, the book won a 1984 Ohio Arts Council Fellowship Grant in Creative Writing."
Last edited by John McKenna on Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Film: Late Call
No doubt, but if we're going to discuss fictional scenes in patriotic and nationalist fiction we're going to be in for a long threadPhil Neatherway wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:46 pmNo doubt there are still many Americans who believe the film was true history.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
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Re: Film: Late Call
Thanks for that, John, I didn't know about that. Which brings us nicely on to the book 'Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee' by Dee Brown. But that's for anpother thread, I think.John McKenna wrote:
There was such a massacre during the American Revolutionary War (1775-83) -
"The Gnadenhutten massacre, also known as the Moravian massacre, was the killing of 96 Christian Lenape by U.S. militiamen from Pennsylvania on March 8, 1782 at the Moravian missionary village of Gnadenhutten, Ohio during the American Revolutionary War...
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Re: Film: Late Call
"Yes loads of errors but only the minority (us chess players) spotted them.
The handful of non-players I know who watched most said they enjoyed it.
I liked it. There are lot worse film out there that I've sat through. (and I knew how it ends!)"
I agree with Geoff on this. There are a lot of mistakes. I found it particularly galling when a studious looking Fischer studied a magazine and then knocked out the intriguing 1. h4 1. h5. Most of the errors could have been avoided. For whatever reason it is just a bit uneven as there are some parts of the film where the chess is better.
That said, Pawn Sacrifice does do a reasonable job of conveying the essence of a man who held it together just long enough to become world champion, but no longer. In many places, while the detail is wrong, the overall feel of the film is right. That's the point of it really. Some of the contemporary footage, particularly at the beginning and the end is quite poignant.
The shame is that it wouldn't have taken much to make this a much better film, but even so, it is not a bad effort.
The handful of non-players I know who watched most said they enjoyed it.
I liked it. There are lot worse film out there that I've sat through. (and I knew how it ends!)"
I agree with Geoff on this. There are a lot of mistakes. I found it particularly galling when a studious looking Fischer studied a magazine and then knocked out the intriguing 1. h4 1. h5. Most of the errors could have been avoided. For whatever reason it is just a bit uneven as there are some parts of the film where the chess is better.
That said, Pawn Sacrifice does do a reasonable job of conveying the essence of a man who held it together just long enough to become world champion, but no longer. In many places, while the detail is wrong, the overall feel of the film is right. That's the point of it really. Some of the contemporary footage, particularly at the beginning and the end is quite poignant.
The shame is that it wouldn't have taken much to make this a much better film, but even so, it is not a bad effort.
Ben Graff
Author of 'Checkmate! Great Champions And Epic Matches From A Timeless Game' 'The Greenbecker Gambit' and 'Find Another Place'
Author of 'Checkmate! Great Champions And Epic Matches From A Timeless Game' 'The Greenbecker Gambit' and 'Find Another Place'
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Re: Film: Late Call
The chess consultant for the film wasRoger de Coverly wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:39 pmI'm not sure why they felt the need to have clocks present and people pressing them during analysis room sequences.
Richard Bérubé
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Re: Film: Late Call
"The chess consultant for the film was
Richard Bérubé"
But they might have ignored him!?
Richard Bérubé"
But they might have ignored him!?
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Re: Film: Late Call
You may ask him if you wish :Kevin Thurlow wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:30 pm"The chess consultant for the film was
Richard Bérubé"
But they might have ignored him!?
https://www.facebook.com/richard.berube.735
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Re: Film: Late Call
The films producers also thank Frank Brady for his assistance.
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Re: Film: Late Call
I'm sure that's right. There are clearly scenes where the chess advisers either weren't consulted or where things were changed late in the day without their knowledge/ endorsement. Equally there are moments where you can see someone who understands the game has been involved.Kevin Thurlow wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:30 pm"The chess consultant for the film was
Richard Bérubé"
But they might have ignored him!?
There is also a grey area where compromises with reality have been made for dramatic effect. For example, in the film Fischer resigns game one immediately after capturing the pawn with his bishop. In the actual game, he played on for over twenty moves. I think on that one, you can see why they went with the more immediate finish. Sadly, not many of the errors can be explained away in this way.
Ben Graff
Author of 'Checkmate! Great Champions And Epic Matches From A Timeless Game' 'The Greenbecker Gambit' and 'Find Another Place'
Author of 'Checkmate! Great Champions And Epic Matches From A Timeless Game' 'The Greenbecker Gambit' and 'Find Another Place'
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Re: Film: Late Call
"You may ask him if you wish :
https://www.facebook.com/richard.berube.735"
What is facebook? Now, where did I leave that black cap...?
https://www.facebook.com/richard.berube.735"
What is facebook? Now, where did I leave that black cap...?
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Re: Film: Late Call
Watched 'Pawn Sacrifice' again last night.
Apart from the handful for wrong dates, names which are really harmless to a non-player from whose perspective this must viewed.
(If you want some facts then 'Bobby Fischer versus the Rest of the World.}
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V14gXuzRdp4
The three major errors (IMO) from 'Pawn Sacrifice' which could affect how a non-player sees the game and the match are:
Saying Morphy committed suicide in a bath surrounded by women's shoes.
It appears there are still a number of rated/serious players who think this is true.
Showing more than one game in the Ping-Pong room giving the impression half the match was played there.
But the worst was showing Spassky ripping up his chair to pieces during a game.
That was entirely wrong and needlessly misleading. No need for that scene.
(The one that bugged me as a player was seeing 'Bobby' playing 1.h5- h5 from a Russian Mag.)
Apart from the handful for wrong dates, names which are really harmless to a non-player from whose perspective this must viewed.
(If you want some facts then 'Bobby Fischer versus the Rest of the World.}
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V14gXuzRdp4
The three major errors (IMO) from 'Pawn Sacrifice' which could affect how a non-player sees the game and the match are:
Saying Morphy committed suicide in a bath surrounded by women's shoes.
It appears there are still a number of rated/serious players who think this is true.
Showing more than one game in the Ping-Pong room giving the impression half the match was played there.
But the worst was showing Spassky ripping up his chair to pieces during a game.
That was entirely wrong and needlessly misleading. No need for that scene.
(The one that bugged me as a player was seeing 'Bobby' playing 1.h5- h5 from a Russian Mag.)
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Re: Film: Late Call
This is quite an amusing video on the subject of historical verisimilitude in cinema
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
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Re: Film: Late Call
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPGdOXs ... e=youtu.be
That's great - give the guy a TV series!
What about the Robin Hood movie where the enemy used WWII style landing craft to invade?
That's great - give the guy a TV series!
What about the Robin Hood movie where the enemy used WWII style landing craft to invade?