Black (Grandmaster) Lives Matter

Discuss anything you like about chess related matters in this forum.
Mick Norris
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Re: Black (Grandmaster) Lives Matter

Post by Mick Norris » Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:31 am

Nick Burrows wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:01 am
Jonathan Bryant wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:47 pm
considerably less attention is paid to the fact that whilst anyone can play the game, those of us who do play competitive chess are hugely disproprotionately likely to be - like me - male, white, middle class, getting older.
It depends on the tournament. My general impression is that it's not hugely disproprtionate, especially amongst junior players who are very diverse. Perhaps it's generational - much like racism, and as the years go by this will be reflected in the adult population of chess players diversifying too.
OK Nick, but it would be much better to do something now, rather than trust to luck that it will sort itself out over the next 50 years or so

It would be a big win too, if we can do something about juniors giving up chess as they become adults (although people haven't been listening to the likes of Rchard James about this, so I'm not optimistic), about girls/women giving up chess, as well as non-white players

Recognising we have a problem would be a start, given clearly some people want to deny we do
Any postings on here represent my personal views

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JustinHorton
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Re: Black (Grandmaster) Lives Matter

Post by JustinHorton » Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:54 am

IM Jack Rudd wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:21 am
That's partly a function of the scheduling of Paignton, mind - its being the first week of the school term results in very few junior entries (the only juniors who entered last year were from Malta).
Well yes, but that surely accounts for the absence of schoolchildren rather than almost everybody being white, male and north of fifty.
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"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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Nick Burrows
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Re: Black (Grandmaster) Lives Matter

Post by Nick Burrows » Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:10 am

JustinHorton wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:54 am
Well yes, but that surely accounts for the absence of schoolchildren rather than almost everybody being white, male and north of fifty.
It is also an area with a relatively low BAME population.

Nick Burrows
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Re: Black (Grandmaster) Lives Matter

Post by Nick Burrows » Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:12 am

Mick Norris wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:31 am


OK Nick, but it would be much better to do something now, rather than trust to luck that it will sort itself out over the next 50 years or so

Recognising we have a problem would be a start, given clearly some people want to deny we do
First of all correctly assessing the problem, before offering a solution.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Black (Grandmaster) Lives Matter

Post by JustinHorton » Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:30 am

Nick Burrows wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:10 am
JustinHorton wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:54 am
Well yes, but that surely accounts for the absence of schoolchildren rather than almost everybody being white, male and north of fifty.
It is also an area with a relatively low BAME population.
Well yes, but it's also a resort.

(I will say that my observation wsa as much about age and gender as race.)
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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NickFaulks
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Re: Black (Grandmaster) Lives Matter

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Jun 14, 2020 3:21 pm

Mick Norris wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:31 am
as well as non-white players
I hesitate to get involved in such a toxic issue, but this is crucial.

We are not talking about the problems faced by non-white players. As the title of the thread correctly states, we are talking about the problems faced by black players, which is not the same as non-white.

If you look at the lists of top ENG under 12 players, boys and girls, you will observe that they are dominated by children who, judging only by their surnames, are of Asian origin. I am delighted to see any junior doing well and wish them further success, but feel compelled to mention that if they have faced racial prejudice, as they may have done, it has conspicuously failed in its intent.

As a white person myself, which I can do nothing about, I have to wonder whether it is really true that ny own tribe can no longer produce young players to match their Asian peers. My guess is that white families have drunk the Koolaid and believe that playing chess is detrimental to their children's education, when they should be expending all of their effort on endless and mind-numbing "coursework". Families of Asian origin are more likely to know what we all knew fifty years ago, which is that chess does not get in the way of education, it complememts it.

In short, the level of respect given in communities to skill at chess is

Asian ........ High
White ........ Low
Black ......... Lower

This is what must change.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

J T Melsom
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Re: Black (Grandmaster) Lives Matter

Post by J T Melsom » Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:23 pm

The FIDE statement is clearly a start, but until a week ago there was no statement on the website about these values. Now they have effectively just borrowed a default set of values from the IOC. I hope that there is more to come over the coming months. I did briefly look at some other international bodies to see what their websites might say. Amongst them the UCI seemed to have a number of bold objectives in respect of gender equality but less on race.

Tim Spanton
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Re: Black (Grandmaster) Lives Matter

Post by Tim Spanton » Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:48 pm

J T Melsom wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:23 pm
The FIDE statement is clearly a start, but until a week ago there was no statement on the website about these values. Now they have effectively just borrowed a default set of values from the IOC. I hope that there is more to come over the coming months. I did briefly look at some other international bodies to see what their websites might say. Amongst them the UCI seemed to have a number of bold objectives in respect of gender equality but less on race.
#getalife

J T Melsom
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Re: Black (Grandmaster) Lives Matter

Post by J T Melsom » Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:03 pm

I see the general forum desire to debate controversial issues with courtesy hasn't lasted long :roll:

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Black (Grandmaster) Lives Matter

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:15 pm

Tim Spanton wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:48 pm
J T Melsom wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:23 pm
The FIDE statement is clearly a start, but until a week ago there was no statement on the website about these values. Now they have effectively just borrowed a default set of values from the IOC. I hope that there is more to come over the coming months. I did briefly look at some other international bodies to see what their websites might say. Amongst them the UCI seemed to have a number of bold objectives in respect of gender equality but less on race.
#getalife
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J T Melsom
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Re: Black (Grandmaster) Lives Matter

Post by J T Melsom » Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:37 pm

It isn't remotely an attempt to engage with the issues. Its a blatant attempt to silence me through abuse. But if I report it then I'm a 'snowflake'. Oh well probably have to put up with it.

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: Black (Grandmaster) Lives Matter

Post by Carl Hibbard » Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:39 am

It was hoped we could up the level of posts rather that just adding get a life?
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Tim Spanton
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Re: Black (Grandmaster) Lives Matter

Post by Tim Spanton » Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:03 pm

J T Melsom wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:37 pm
It isn't remotely an attempt to engage with the issues. Its a blatant attempt to silence me through abuse. But if I report it then I'm a 'snowflake'. Oh well probably have to put up with it.
You seriously overestimate my levels of optimism if you think I was attempting to silence you.

My point, which I tried to make succinctly, is that some people only seem happy when being negative about certain subjects - prime examples being Fide and the ECF.

When I wrote #getalife, I was suggesting such people should reevaluate their lifestyle choices.

J T Melsom
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Re: Black (Grandmaster) Lives Matter

Post by J T Melsom » Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:23 pm

'
I doubt you know the first thing about my state of happiness. I wouldn't choose to give you advice on lifestyle choices either.

The point you are trying to make has next to no basis in fact either. My posts about FIDE in this and in other threads across several different topics are insignificant, probably less than your blog's coverage of king and pawn endings.

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