Black (Grandmaster) Lives Matter

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David Sedgwick
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Re: Black (Grandmaster) Lives Matter

Post by David Sedgwick » Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:30 pm

For some reason my first two attempts at posting in this thread today have not succeeded. I hope that this third attempt will be more successful.
JustinHorton wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:06 pm
… we are perhaps well into Not Chess territory and may wish to steer back towards the experiences of people of colour within our community
I shall respond to the posts upthread only by taking the liberty of pointing out that some years ago Jack Rudd cited me on the S&B blog as an example of inclusive Toryism.

I have spent a fair amount of time trying to help with the development of chess in West Africa and I exchanged friendly greetings with a Nigerian contact only yesterday. None of the people whom I have met has mentioned racism within the chess community as being an issue for them.

However, I was called to account for subconscious racism by GM Maurice Ashley when we were in Côte d'Ivoire. I changed a decision and apologised.
Last edited by David Sedgwick on Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Simon Rogers
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Re: Black (Grandmaster) Lives Matter

Post by Simon Rogers » Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:40 pm

SORRY David. I was only joking about Stewart Rueben.
Other people joke about his typing errors on the forum.
I have met Stewart a number of occasions and have a lot of time for the guy.
I enjoy reading his contributions to the forum.
I don't want to fall out with anyone on the forum.
I don't have left wing or right wing views because:
Everyone is equal
ALL LIVES MATTER

Tomis Chagall
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Re: Black (Grandmaster) Lives Matter

Post by Tomis Chagall » Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:35 pm

Here’s a good summary of »All Lives Matter« and its background:

https://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2020/0 ... ves-matter

Bob is sitting at the dinner table. Everyone else gets a plate of food except Bob. Bob says, »Bob Deserves Food«. Everyone at the table responds with »Everyone Deserves Food« and continues eating. Although Everyone Deserves Food is a true statement, it does nothing to actually rectify the fact that Bob doesn’t have any food.
Esse quam videri - to be rather than to seem. (Marcus Tullius Cicero)

John McKenna

Re: Black (Grandmaster) Lives Matter

Post by John McKenna » Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:34 pm

The problem is "Black Lives Matter" and "All Lives Matter" are slogans that have hijacked four words of the English Language to mean what the hijackers want them to mean so that the man in the street is - like Bob at the table - deprived of what was rightfully a share in the word feast.
Last edited by John McKenna on Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Black (Grandmaster) Lives Matter

Post by JustinHorton » Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:44 pm

Hijacked is nice
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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John McKenna

Re: Black (Grandmaster) Lives Matter

Post by John McKenna » Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:48 pm

Would you care to suggest an alternative word? (If you have to resort to two - one for each side - I'll say you've failed because of your obvious bias.)

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JustinHorton
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Re: Black (Grandmaster) Lives Matter

Post by JustinHorton » Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:57 pm

Well I do have an obvious bias here, which I'm glad to have, but I'd really rather you stopped behaving as if the topic was John McKenna. I'm terse in my replies because I would rather not spend time on this and replying to you at all runs the risk of aking it worse. Could you just give it a rest please.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

Paul McKeown
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Re: Black (Grandmaster) Lives Matter

Post by Paul McKeown » Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:01 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:30 pm
Foe some reason my first two attempts at posting in this thread today have not succeeded. I hope that this third attempt will be more successful.

I shall respond to the posts upthread only by taking the liberty of pointing out that some years ago Jack Rudd cited me on the S&B blog as an example of inclusive Toryism.

I have spent a fair amount of time trying to help with the development of chess in West Africa and I exchanged friendly greetings with a Nigerian contact only yesterday. None of the people whom I have met has mentioned racism within the chess community as being an issue for them.

However, I was called to account for subconscious racism by GM Maurice Ashley when we were in Côte d'Ivoire. I changed a decision and apologised.
David, thank you for your brave, personal contribution. I would agree that my view of chess in England is that racism isn't a burning issue; I am willing to be corrected on that, though, as I am a white, and I would not naturally note any racism as quickly as non-white colleagues might. I would say, though, that sexism in chess in England is a huge issue, and one that many in the community would both deny and attempt to thwart any attempts to address. However, I would prefer not to hijack a thread about racism to deal with sexism, as I am sure that there are from time to time words or deeds (or indeed policies) of racism in the chess commmunity: it is unfortunately human nature to be seek an advantage at someone else's expense.

As someone in the know of the ECF, the Chess Arbiters Association and of FIDE, could you point out what policies these organisations have to deal with racism?

Alex McFarlane
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Re: Black (Grandmaster) Lives Matter

Post by Alex McFarlane » Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:37 pm

Paul McKeown wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:01 pm
As someone in the know of the ECF, the Chess Arbiters Association and of FIDE, could you point out what policies these organisations have to deal with racism?
I'm not David but I will answer part of your question. The following is taken from the CAA Safeguarding Policy document. Although primarily aimed at working with young people it would not be restricted to that group if otherwise appropriate.
• All young people within chess, regardless of age, ability, sex, race, religion or belief, ethnic origin, social status or sexual orientation, have the right to be protected from harm.
• The rights, dignity and worth of all individuals should always be respected

J T Melsom
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Re: Black (Grandmaster) Lives Matter

Post by J T Melsom » Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:57 pm

The latest post in the chess.com series is interesting as it emphasises the challenges around ensuring equality of opportunity. This and the issue of representation in decision making bodies are not to be ignored in this debate albeit that they are clearly more difficult to solve. And as an unfortunate reminder that this topic can be a mine-field there is an apology from chess.com for interviewing a representative of the Nation of Islam without doing due diligence on that body. https://www.chess.com/article/view/on-r ... niel-jones

David Sedgwick
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Re: Black (Grandmaster) Lives Matter

Post by David Sedgwick » Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:11 pm

Paul McKeown wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:01 pm
As someone in the know of the ECF, the Chess Arbiters Association and of FIDE, could you point out what policies these organisations have to deal with racism?
I am sorry, but I am going to duck that. I have a certain degree of knowledge of all three organisations, but I am not an officer of, or a spokesman for, any of them. Indeed, all three could well regard me as a critic.

As you have been graciously acknowledged, I have commented about a region where I have some personal knowledge and involvement. I hope to go back to West Africa before I become too old and infirm to travel.

J T Melsom
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Re: Black (Grandmaster) Lives Matter

Post by J T Melsom » Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:57 pm

David

Your first post on this topic was very helpful and I partly understand your reluctance to talk about other bodies. My reading of the FIDE rules is that if there were a complaint of racism it might be covered by the Ethics Commission, but that there is no explicit reference to racism as a matter for investigation, it being swept up in more general terms. Other sporting bodies are more explicit. But you are not the only person on the forum who could comment.

Is there a clear misconduct policy for Grand Tour events? If say a dispute arose and racial abuse were directed at a player, what steps would you be able to take?

in passing i suspect many county organisations do not have strong enough rules on misconduct, let alone where it is racially motivated.

David Sedgwick
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Re: Black (Grandmaster) Lives Matter

Post by David Sedgwick » Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:49 pm

J T Melsom wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:57 pm
Is there a clear misconduct policy for Grand Tour events? If say a dispute arose and racial abuse were directed at a player, what steps would you be able to take?
This is covered by the Player Agreement, the details of which are confidential.

There is no specific reference to racial abuse, but there are general provisions about misconduct which would cover it. The ultimate penalty would be expulsion from the Tour.

Any decision to take action under these provisions would be above the pay grade of the Chief Arbiter. It would be a matter for the GCT Advisory Board, or conceivably for the main GCT Board.

I have never envisaged these provisions needing to be invoked. However, until a few months ago I would have said the same about the provision enabling the GCT to cancel the Tour in the event of force majeure.

Geoff Chandler
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Re: Black (Grandmaster) Lives Matter

Post by Geoff Chandler » Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:12 am

Statues being town down. Chess and Racism.

One worry is if some of the more radical protesters cannot find a statue they will desecrate the grave.
(if you have a mind to spray paint the Cenotaph then it is not such a great leap to make.)

There is a famous (to us) chess player whose wiki page actually mentions:

"...he advocated strongly for the continuation of slavery."

The same players also wrote a book, which I have not read, apparently challenging Wilberforce's stance.

Hopefully he and others with views of their times and without a statue to take down, kick at, spit at
and dump in a river (good grief) will slip under the radar if grave desecration becomes the new norm.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Black (Grandmaster) Lives Matter

Post by JustinHorton » Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:18 am

Geoff Chandler wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:12 am
without a statue to take down, kick at, spit at and dump in a river (good grief)
You're aware of the symbolism here Geoff

Geoff Chandler wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:12 am
with views of their times
I don't think (a history graduate writes) I can possibly get over how tiresome it is to hear people use lazy phrases like this as if they contributed one whit to our understanding of what is happening now.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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