(Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Discuss anything you like about chess related matters in this forum.
Mick Norris
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Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by Mick Norris » Sat May 01, 2021 2:15 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 10:55 am
David Sedgwick wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 10:47 am
This guidance is applicable after 21st June, the date on which all restrictions are scheduled to be officially lifted.
It seems to me that the document is attempting to apply restrictions where none will officially exist.
We welcome comments/input on the list which should be sent to [email protected]
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Wadih Khoury
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Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by Wadih Khoury » Mon May 10, 2021 7:34 am

I was looking at the new rules from May 17th onwards, and I was thinking that they should allow indoor chess events (including adults), as long as the boards are sufficiently distanced.
The evidence is mainly driven by the example of restaurants, which will be able to cater to tables of 6 (or 2 households).

In a 5 rounds event, players will only mingle with 5 different players. As long as their boards are sufficiently spaced, it is no different than going 5 times to a very well distanced restaurant (much more space and safety than being seated at a table of 6, surrounded by aerosol emitting patrons). Key is also not to allow players to mingle after their game, either by providing socially distanced rest space or asking them to vacate the premises in between rounds.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon May 10, 2021 8:58 am

Wadih Khoury wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 7:34 am
Key is also not to allow players to mingle after their game, either by providing socially distanced rest space or asking them to vacate the premises in between rounds.
I don't think the ECF ever expressed an opinion on the legality of adult chess events for more than six people and what you have to do to follow the letter of the regulations if not the spirit. A risk for the organiser is someone in authority deciding this was an illegal chess gathering and imposing a substantial fine.

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Adam Raoof
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Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by Adam Raoof » Mon May 10, 2021 11:03 am

Adam Raoof wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:51 pm
Golders green rapid on 10 july, 17 july, 7 Aug and 14 August

Muswell Hill Masters 9 to 13 August, 10 player apa!
I am about to release the entry forms for our over the board Golders Green Rapid events on 10th and 17th July, and 7th and 14th August to premium subscribers of https://chesscircuit.substack.com/ and then after that to anyone who has a free subscription or who is with me on Slack/whatsapp. Consider a sub, I am working on ideas for more face to face events if possible in June, and you would hear about them first!
Adam Raoof IA, IO
Chess England Events - https://chessengland.com/
The Chess Circuit - https://chesscircuit.substack.com/
Don’t stop playing chess!

Jacques Parry
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Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by Jacques Parry » Mon May 10, 2021 7:35 pm

Wadih Khoury wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 7:34 am
I was looking at the new rules from May 17th onwards, and I was thinking that they should allow indoor chess events (including adults), as long as the boards are sufficiently distanced.
The evidence is mainly driven by the example of restaurants, which will be able to cater to tables of 6 (or 2 households).

In a 5 rounds event, players will only mingle with 5 different players. As long as their boards are sufficiently spaced, it is no different than going 5 times to a very well distanced restaurant (much more space and safety than being seated at a table of 6, surrounded by aerosol emitting patrons). Key is also not to allow players to mingle after their game, either by providing socially distanced rest space or asking them to vacate the premises in between rounds.
Do you mean a Swiss, as against an event comprising several 6-person all-play-alls? I don't think you could get away with arguing that a 5-round Swiss is actually lots of interlocking gatherings of 6. If there are 30 people at a party, it's a gathering of 30 people, even if no individual mingles with more than 5.

Wadih Khoury
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Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by Wadih Khoury » Mon May 10, 2021 8:42 pm

Jacques Parry wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 7:35 pm


Do you mean a Swiss, as against an event comprising several 6-person all-play-alls? I don't think you could get away with arguing that a 5-round Swiss is actually lots of interlocking gatherings of 6. If there are 30 people at a party, it's a gathering of 30 people, even if no individual mingles with more than 5.
Please keep in mind this is purely a rhetorical discussion at this point:

I would argue that chess tournament is better than a pub/restaurant.
Technically, a pub or restaurant will be allowed to have more than 30 people inside, as long as they are in groups of 6 or less (or 2 households). Said people can stay for multiple hours at their tables, while talking and emitting lots of aerosols. They can then come back in different groups for dinner and for a late drink.
The rhetorical argument for chess is that, as long as players leave the premises in between rounds (or stay outside where restrictions will be very light), in a 5 round congress, a player will only mingle with 5 other players, on an 1-1 basis, in a quiet (i.e. no talking) environment, over the course of 2 days.

I think therefore an argument could be made to local health authorities that the event is compatible with indoor rules and a much lower risk than a pub. Of course, laws and guidance do not cover chess as policy maker are not even aware of the existence of our sport, hence it may be a good idea, should one want to test the idea, to ask for local authorities their views on the subject. I believe before lockdown #2 that the Northumberland team did a fantastic job in engaging with local authorities to determine an acceptable and safe operating model.

Jacques Parry
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Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by Jacques Parry » Mon May 10, 2021 9:05 pm

Wadih, I agree that a Swiss event with proper precautions would be relatively low risk. Maybe you could persuade a local authority to turn a blind eye on that basis. But I think it would clearly be illegal, simply because it's an indoor gathering of more than 6 people.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Tue May 11, 2021 8:35 am

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-57059652 says

"The 2021 Brit Awards will take place later in front of a 4,000-strong live audience without social distancing or face masks at London's O2 Arena."

"The show is part of the government's pilot scheme for reopening live events."

So maybe chess tournaments will appear in the near future... I note that one performer had to quarantine for ten days beforehand - I'm not sure why they had to do that, given the above.

David Williams
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Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by David Williams » Tue May 11, 2021 8:50 am

What do these pilot events prove? There were 14,560 positive test in the UK in the last seven days, so if you picked 4,000 people at random you could expect one of them to have tested positive in that time. By the time you've weeded that one person out, anyone else showing symptoms, and given everyone a test, there's very little chance that anyone attending has the virus.

The only useful test would be if they deliberately inserted a dozen people who had tested positive and see what happens.

NickFaulks
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Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by NickFaulks » Tue May 11, 2021 9:13 am

David Williams wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 8:50 am
The only useful test would be if they deliberately inserted a dozen people who had tested positive and see what happens.
Aren't they testing they way live events are actually intended to happen in future, with every attempt made to weed out anyone infected?
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

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John Upham
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Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by John Upham » Tue May 11, 2021 9:54 am

David Williams wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 8:50 am
There were 14,560 positive test in the UK in the last seven days, so if you picked 4,000 people at random you could expect one of them to have tested positive in that time.
However, the geographical location of positives tests will be known.

If they were truly geographically random then that would be different but most positive tests will be linked to other positive tests. That is the nature of a contagious phenomenon.

For example look at the case rates in

Erewash and Bolton today.

See https://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/social-he ... ademy.aspx

and

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/19 ... -rate-100/
Last edited by John Upham on Tue May 11, 2021 10:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
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David Williams
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Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by David Williams » Tue May 11, 2021 10:00 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 9:13 am
David Williams wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 8:50 am
The only useful test would be if they deliberately inserted a dozen people who had tested positive and see what happens.
Aren't they testing they way live events are actually intended to happen in future, with every attempt made to weed out anyone infected?
How will they know if it's been a success, when there's every chance that nothing would have gone wrong if there had been no safeguards at all?

Mick Norris
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Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by Mick Norris » Tue May 11, 2021 10:29 am

Indeed John, not just the football team here in Bolton rising up the tables to near the top; thankfully Wanderers have been promoted, so the issue of whether fans should be allowed in for a playoff match has disappeared

Bolton was of course number 1 in the country last year for a while, and has had more lockdowns than anywhere but Leicester I think; the current problems seem to be located in the BL3 postcode area, where there's surge testing going on (i.e. everyone is asked to take a test, regardless of whether they have symptoms)

I had thought we were behind only Hyndburn, which was due to a school outbreak there, so the Erewash info is new to me; I see that Blackburn & Darwen have rising cases, which is more concerning for me as I'm in that postcode

Maybe lucky that I went to North Wales and back yesterday, although I assume trips for work will remain permitted
Any postings on here represent my personal views

NickFaulks
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Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by NickFaulks » Tue May 11, 2021 11:28 am

David Williams wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 10:00 am
How will they know if it's been a success, when there's every chance that nothing would have gone wrong if there had been no safeguards at all?
It will certainly not show that the restrictions are necessary, but will hopefully provide evidence that they are at least sufficient.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

Simon Rogers
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Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by Simon Rogers » Tue May 11, 2021 8:02 pm

Apologies all for not posting for a while. I've been on my travels to various chess websites around the UK and the rest of the world.
I have lots of information to share with you.
There are a number of Chess clubs opening up from after next Monday which I'll gradually share. I've found some more OTB tournaments going ahead.
A club mate of mine at Poulton-le-Fylde Chess Club has sadly passed away towards the end of last year, which I only found out yesterday.

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