(Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Discuss anything you like about chess related matters in this forum.
NickFaulks
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Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:07 pm

David Williams wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:54 pm
I refuse to believe that almost everybody has been jabbed. Will that do for starters?
We were originally told it was vital for the vulnerable to be jabbed, defined as over 70. This was achieved, but the barrier was silently changed to over 50. We are now down to and through over 30, at the border of where the likelihood of dying from Covid is lower than the ( very small ) danger of dying from effects of the jab. They are talking about jabbing children, who are at negligible risk from Covid. Is that what you want to wait for?
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

David Williams
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Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by David Williams » Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:16 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:07 pm
David Williams wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:54 pm
I refuse to believe that almost everybody has been jabbed. Will that do for starters?
We were originally told it was vital for the vulnerable to be jabbed, defined as over 70. This was achieved, but the barrier was silently changed to over 50. We are now down to and through over 30, at the border of where the likelihood of dying from Covid is lower than the ( very small ) danger of dying from effects of the jab. They are talking about jabbing children, who are at negligible risk from Covid. Is that what you want to wait for?
I can't see why not believing that "almost everybody has been jabbed" means I disagree with whatever else is in your mind. You know that point when you are chatting to someone and you begin to suspect they are slightly unhinged? And you try and change the subject while slowly backing away. Wasn't the cricket a disaster? Sorry, I have to take this call . . .

Matt Bridgeman
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Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by Matt Bridgeman » Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:45 pm

There's a question mark now on lateral flow tests, particularly in the context of entry to an event. The FDA in America went beyond simply warning about their accuracy, and effectively did a product recall where they suggested just binning them. A bit of food for thought for chess events in August and September I suppose, where people might suggest them as a condition of entry where people haven't had two jabs;
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p09l8hgg

NickFaulks
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Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:40 pm

David Williams wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:16 pm
I can't see why not believing that "almost everybody has been jabbed" means I disagree with whatever else is in your mind. You know that point when you are chatting to someone and you begin to suspect they are slightly unhinged?
Anyone who questions your own view is "slightly unhinged". Very nice, and of course a line which has been taken by Government ministers in support of continuing restrictions. The point is that "everybody" originally applied to just the genuinely vulnerable, but has been steadily extended all the way down to age eighteen and could go lower. It also used to apply only to those in our country, but there have been suggestions that it must include the global community.

The possibilities are endless.
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Roger Lancaster
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Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by Roger Lancaster » Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:59 am

David Williams wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:54 pm
NickFaulks wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:49 pm
I look forward to your refusing to believe some transparent lie.
I refuse to believe that almost everybody has been jabbed. Will that do for starters?
"More than 41 million people in the UK have had a first dose of a coronavirus vaccine, while nearly 30 million have had two doses" according to BBC report this morning which, of course, some may choose not to believe. UK population reckoned to be approximately 68 million.

Wadih Khoury
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Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by Wadih Khoury » Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:14 am

Roger Lancaster wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:59 am
David Williams wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:54 pm
NickFaulks wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:49 pm
I look forward to your refusing to believe some transparent lie.
I refuse to believe that almost everybody has been jabbed. Will that do for starters?
"More than 41 million people in the UK have had a first dose of a coronavirus vaccine, while nearly 30 million have had two doses" according to BBC report this morning which, of course, some may choose not to believe. UK population reckoned to be approximately 68 million.
It is a poor wording by the BBC, what they mean is 41m had the first does and 30m the second (i.e there is 11m who just had one dose). The 2 numbers are not additive as one is a subset of the other.
Which implies 27m with no jabs at all (though at lower risk) and 38m at higher risk against the Delta variant.

Full stats here: https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations

Matthew Turner
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Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by Matthew Turner » Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:34 am

Ultimately the figures that matter are

"And of 42 deaths in people with Delta variant infections, 23 were unvaccinated and seven had received only one dose. The other 12 had received two doses more than two weeks before."

It strikes me that 12 is rather a lot of deaths amongst the vaccinated population given the relative low number of cases, delay between infection and death, delay between the disease circulating and getting into the less active older population.

Matt Bridgeman
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Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by Matt Bridgeman » Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:17 am

The 19th July seems a bit of an arbitrary date probably best taken with a pinch of salt considering the Indian variant case numbers are doubling by the week. The end of September is I believe when the bulk of the population will have received two jabs.

NickFaulks
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Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by NickFaulks » Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:57 am

Matthew Turner wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:34 am
It strikes me that 12 is rather a lot of deaths amongst the vaccinated population given the relative low number of cases
If the numbers are genuine, then I would agree that the proportion looks quite high. In absolute terms, around one death per day still looks a weak excuse for the continuing ruination of the entire country.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

NickFaulks
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Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by NickFaulks » Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:12 am

Wadih Khoury wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:14 am
Which implies 27m with no jabs at all (though at lower risk) and 38m at higher risk against the Delta variant.
So it's official, we are now including children and even babies in the "at risk" numbers.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

J T Melsom
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Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by J T Melsom » Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:17 am

Nick, this has been an exceptionally long thread and its probably best not to be overly critical of views expressed during the early days of the pandemic. But is it fair to say that there is not a single public health measure adopted in this country that has had your support? So no lock-downs, no masks and no vaccines.

NickFaulks
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Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by NickFaulks » Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:04 am

J T Melsom wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:17 am
no vaccines.
Where on earth do you get that from?
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

J T Melsom
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Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by J T Melsom » Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:17 am

You expressed misgivings about the safety of the vaccines being offered in respect of this disease. It was why some people referred to you as anti-vax, when vaccine hesitant might have been fairer.

NickFaulks
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Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by NickFaulks » Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:42 am

I cannot imagine anyone needed me to tell them that the vaccines were approved for emergency use after far less lengthy testing than had ever previously been required. Nor that there could be a reason why the manufacturers were willing to sell their vaccines to the world only after obtaining total indemnity against any possible ill effects.

I feel able to make my own decision as to whether, for me, the benefits outweigh the risks. I discussed this with my GP, a very sensible lady, who agreed completely and then offered her professional view that, for me, the benefits did indeed outweigh the risks.

So far, so good. My complaint is that we were sold a bargain under which, if most people at risk accepted the vaccine, our freedoms would be returned. I guessed that the Government was lying about their side of the bargain, because that is what they do for a living, and so far nothing has happened to make me think I was wrong.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

J T Melsom
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Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by J T Melsom » Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:48 am

So my original question (and thank you for answering in more detail on vaccines) - 'are you opposed to all public health measures utilised by the government' is ..?

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