Queen vs three pieces

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Jonathan Bryant
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Queen vs three pieces

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:43 pm



White to play

Leafing through an old Chess Magazine i came across this position. At a glance you can tell that a key decision for White is whether or not to give up the Queen - and whether you get enough in return if you do.

I’m interested as to what forumites think about White’s best play from the diagram.

I’m also curious as to other games with the Queen vs three pieces theme. Can anybody think of any? Either GM or club level?

I’m sure I should know of some but nothing’s coming to mind.
Last edited by Jonathan Bryant on Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Queen vs three pieces

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:56 pm

I've had a very similar position, and I took the knight.


LawrenceCooper
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Re: Queen vs three pieces

Post by LawrenceCooper » Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:59 pm

Jonathan Bryant wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:43 pm


White to play

Leading through an old Chess Magazine i came across this position. At a glance you can tell that a key decision for White is whether or not to give up the Queen - and whether you get enough in return if you do.

I’m interested as to what forumites think about White’s best play from the diagram.

I’m also curious as to other games with the Queen vs three pieces theme. Can anybody think of any? Either GM or club level?

I’m sure I should know of some but nothing’s coming to mind.
1 e4 d6 2 d4 Nf6 3 Nc3 g6 4 Bc4 Bg7 5 Qe2 Nc6 6 e5 is an opening line that I vaguely recall from years ago.
http://www.kenilworthchessclub.org/game ... 7-Nxd4.htm

Rather more bizarre is this one: http://200opengames.blogspot.com/2017/0 ... ieces.html
Last edited by LawrenceCooper on Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Joey Stewart
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Re: Queen vs three pieces

Post by Joey Stewart » Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:01 pm

I've seen it happen in a Couple of my own games, once as a result of a bit of an opening blunder and the other it was a deliberate attempt to neutralise an attack but in both cases the minor prices won out.

This particular position has plus and negatives for write, king safety is good so no material is likely to get nicked with forks or skewers and the minor pieces are all on fairly safe squares to control the board plus hold the position together. On the less good side the queenside will be weak and potentially exploitable and also black really doesn't have any major structural weaknesses that you could potentially exploit for advantage (ideally it's nice to have a target pawn to gang up against. Id probably say it would give white the edge in the long run but black will be able to take his chances too
Lose one queen and it is a disaster, Lose 1000 queens and it is just a statistic.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Queen vs three pieces

Post by JustinHorton » Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:06 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:59 pm

1 e4 d6 2 d4 Nf6 3 Nc3 g6 4 Bc4 Bg7 5 Qe2 Nc6 6 e5 is an opening line that I vaguely recall from years ago.
http://www.kenilworthchessclub.org/game ... 7-Nxd4.htm
As I recall that gets some outings in David Short's book on Nigel.
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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Queen vs three pieces

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:06 pm

Generalising here, but it depends very much on how coordinated the "three pieces" are.

Well, and 3 minor pieces are often better than a Q, Badly, and a Q can easily outplay a R and 2 minors.
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

Richard Thursby
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Re: Queen vs three pieces

Post by Richard Thursby » Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:41 pm

Several examples here including an example by Nigel Short.

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Queen vs three pieces

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:26 pm

    LawrenceCooper wrote:
    Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:59 pm
    1 e4 d6 2 d4 Nf6 3 Nc3 g6 4 Bc4 Bg7 5 Qe2 Nc6 6 e5 is an opening line that I vaguely recall ....
    Ah yes of course.
    Someone tried to play this against me at a tournament a few years back. I avoided as was thought best at the time. Marin’s book on the Pirc suggests Black can grab the material though.

    There’s also this theoretical line in a book by Vigus:-



    David Sedgwick
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    Re: Queen vs three pieces

    Post by David Sedgwick » Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:03 pm

    Richard Thursby wrote:
    Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:41 pm
    Several examples here including an example by Nigel Short.
    Nigel Short's game against Richard Miles is the one given in the book by David Short which Justin mentioned.

    Black has two potential improvements: Playing something other than … Rxg7 on move 9 and playing … Be6 rather than … e6 on move 11.

    Reg Clucas
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    Re: Queen vs three pieces

    Post by Reg Clucas » Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:03 pm

    This position in the Dragon has been reached on numerous occasions.

    NigelDonovan
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    Re: Queen vs three pieces

    Post by NigelDonovan » Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:38 pm

    Here's a bizarre game.



    Fritz thinks the final position is better / winning for White and prefers 18...Bd7, when it might stay as Q v 3 pieces, because taking the rook allows a draw, and 19. Ka1 allows 19...Re3. Crazy stuff!

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    Matt Mackenzie
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    Re: Queen vs three pieces

    Post by Matt Mackenzie » Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:29 pm

    Just come across a nice example of this - Schussler v Polugayevsky at Skara 1980 (Polu got 3 minor pieces for his Q and won)
    "Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

    Jonathan Bryant
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    Re: Queen vs three pieces

    Post by Jonathan Bryant » Tue Apr 28, 2020 9:15 pm

    Matt Mackenzie wrote:
    Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:29 pm
    Just come across a nice example of this - Schussler v Polugayevsky at Skara 1980 (Polu got 3 minor pieces for his Q and won)


    Jonathan Bryant
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    Re: Queen vs three pieces

    Post by Jonathan Bryant » Tue Apr 28, 2020 9:18 pm

    Thanks Reg/Nigel/Matt.
    All of those were unknown to me.

    Curious that all the examples so far involve a fianchetto

    Richard Bates
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    Re: Queen vs three pieces

    Post by Richard Bates » Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:21 pm

    My contribution. Computer doesn't seem to like it.

    https://www.365chess.com/game.php?gid=454771

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