Problems with wind up clocks!

[matt_ward]

Hello everyone,

I do apologise if this has been mentioned in recent times to my knowledge it has not but. I couldn't help but comment on a incident I had been in, I was playing a game for my club, in a local league.

And on several occasions my opponents clock stopped working and we had to pause and re- wind the clocks as they were not digitals.

I was just curious what the cause of action would be for future reference, between " Yourself and your opponent", to come to an amicable decision when no arbiter is present.

Has anyone else had this problem while their game was in progress with the clocks?

Regards Matt.

[Alex Holowczak]

Has anyone else had this problem while their game was in progress with the clocks?

I've had several experiences of clocks stopping in my game. You press the button and nothing happens. Press again, and suddenly they start!

I had a game that started at 7:35pm, and was played to 30 in 75, back 15. I won the game at 10:40pm, and we had about 8 minutes left between us.

[Michael Jones]

I once saw a league game with the same time control that lasted about 3 1/2 hours - we'd just bought some new digital clocks, hadn't quite figured out how to use them yet and accidentally set them to add a 15 second increment!

As regards analogue clocks, of course there will be some problems - most often caused either by them being wound too far, or by players (not necessarily the ones using the clock at the time of the malfunction) hitting them too hard. If one does stop during a game, try pressing it again. If that doesn't work, try winding it a bit more (assuming it hasn't been overwound already). If all else fails, use a different clock - any home team or tournament organiser that doesn't have one or two spares on hand is pushing their luck!

[Warren Kingston]

Just used a digital clock for the first time, in a League match, Friday gone. It was strange not looking at a clock face to work out how much time I had left, I know that sounds strange, considering the time is right in front of me!!!
Another problem for me was that the twenty mins wasn't added to the time until there was only two mins remaining. Kept asking my opponent if clock was ok, was worrying if it wasn't going to change.
Call me old fashioned, but I do like a clock face. Wonder if they do a digital clock face?

[Alex Holowczak]

Another problem for me was that the twenty mins wasn't added to the time until there was only two mins remaining. Kept asking my opponent if clock was ok, was worrying if it wasn't going to change.

Well, now you've played one game with it, and know the ropes with them, there's no problem, right? If you used one in another game, you'd know exactly what was going on.

[Pat Bennett]

Well, now you've played one game with it, and know the ropes with them, there's no problem, right? If you used one in another game, you'd know exactly what was going on.

Well, Alex, I don't think it's quite as simple as that. When you have played with analogue clocks for as long as I have, the angle of the minute hand to the vertical, the position of the flag, the millimetre or less from the tip of the minute hand to the end of the flag, all have a concrete relationship to the speed at which I have to play bearing in mind the number of moves left to the time control. The digital display does not have the same meaning, and it has taken me a long time to start to cope with it. Still not quite there.

Anyway, I have the same distrustful feelings towards digital clocks as I would have to electronic voting machines if they were introduced here. How do I know that there is not a subtle hack, say a combination of button presses, which results in one person's second being slightly longer or shorter than his opponent's? I suppose I should add a smiley at this point ...

[Gavin Strachan]

is this some kind of windup?

[Alex Holowczak]

Well, now you've played one game with it, and know the ropes with them, there's no problem, right? If you used one in another game, you'd know exactly what was going on.

Well, Alex, I don't think it's quite as simple as that. When you have played with analogue clocks for as long as I have, the angle of the minute hand to the vertical, the position of the flag, the millimetre or less from the tip of the minute hand to the end of the flag, all have a concrete relationship to the speed at which I have to play bearing in mind the number of moves left to the time control. The digital display does not have the same meaning, and it has taken me a long time to start to cope with it. Still not quite there.

The digital display is actually an advantage here. Rather than guessing when the flag is going to fall in the last 2 minutes, you can actually see the time remaining to the nearest second. If you push your time controls close, a digital clock is a big advantage.

How do I know that there is not a subtle hack, say a combination of button presses, which results in one person's second being slightly longer or shorter than his opponent's? I suppose I should add a smiley at this point ...

Because you're a rational human being.

[John Upham]

Anyway, I have the same distrustful feelings towards digital clocks as I would have to electronic voting machines if they were introduced here. How do I know that there is not a subtle hack, say a combination of button presses, which results in one person's second being slightly longer or shorter than his opponent's? I suppose I should add a smiley at this point ...

There is a way of doing this providing you can cut the clock in half and allow them to transported at velocities close to that of the velocity of light in vacuo.

However, this is also true of analogue clocks.

I will leave Alex to supply the appropriate relativistic equations.

[Ian Thompson]

How do I know that there is not a subtle hack, say a combination of button presses, which results in one person's second being slightly longer or shorter than his opponent's? I suppose I should add a smiley at this point ...

Because you're a rational human being.

... and a rational human being wishing to do this would use an analogue clock which has levers on the back of each clock designed for this purpose.

[John Upham]

I have observed that older "more experienced" players can use an intermediate time control to bewilder juniors into gaining a couple of minutes on their clock.

This happens at the quaint, age old practise of "winding back the clock" at an intermediate time control which the older players love. They come into their age with their years of experience.

They might be lowly rated but they sure as hell know how to fiddle the clock!

Not being able to fiddle clocks is a major bugbear for some players.

I know one person who loves the dreadful Garde analogue clock. He smashes the button and, if his position becomes lost, "accidentally" tips the clock onto the board scattering the position. He is hilarious. He also likes to "rest" his clock hand (not his playing hand) on the button. It is artistry in action.

The first TC is reached, the older player grasps the clock and "Paul Daniels like" manages to give himself more than and maybe even the opponent less time.

It is hilarious and sad to witness.

[Jonathan Bryant]

The digital display is actually an advantage here. Rather than guessing when the flag is going to fall in the last 2 minutes, you can actually see the time remaining to the nearest second. If you push your time controls close, a digital clock is a big advantage.

True once you get used to it. The first couple of times I played with a digital clock I found watching my time disappear before my eyes incredibly alarming. Doesn't take too long to get used to, fortunately ... althouth I assume the more you've used an old-style clock the longer it will take to adapt to a digital clock.

I have no particular preference for digital or analogue. They both have advantages and disadvantages.

My one big annoyance of my opponent/another club introducing a digital clock is that is impossible for me to check that the clock has been set correctly. As I understand it - and not unreasonably - if there is a problem as a result to the faulty setting of a clock the players concerned are deemed to be at fault for not checking everything was set up the right way before the game began.

This has not proved to be a problem as yet - partly because the one time my clock malfuncitoned I happened to be playing next to one of the leading arbiters in the country who helped us sort the problem out - but I suspect sod's law will ensure that when it is my turn for a clock balls up it will happen at a particularly critical moment in a particularly critical game.

[John Upham]

My one big annoyance of my opponent/another club introducing a digital clock is that is impossible for me to check that the clock has been set correctly.

This is a fallacy.

The DGT clocks ( I do not vouch for any lesser products) allow one to step through the program that has been set before your very eyes.

Observe : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krsDPQsR ... =1&index=1

[Ian Thompson]

As I understand it - and not unreasonably - if there is a problem as a result to the faulty setting of a clock the players concerned are deemed to be at fault for not checking everything was set up the right way before the game began.

The FIDE rules don't say that - see Rule 6.10 b, unless its a rapidplay or blitz game, when you've got 3 moves to spot the error.

[Pat Bennett]

Because you're a rational human being

Well, thank you for that, Alex! You are more generous than many of my friends ..

However. I owned a Canon 300D digital camera. At the same time, Canon had brought out the 10D, which was more substantial (heavier), and was able to do rather more things than the 300D could. Then some Dutchmen hacked the 10D firmware and worked out how to make a version of the 300D firmware to enable it to do the clever things that it lacked. I downloaded the firmware, loaded it into my camera, which immediately became cleverer.

Now if that is possible, then it is possible that a chess clock is hackable, and to have its firmware replaced by a cleverer version which enables skullduggery. I accept that it may not be possible, depending on how the electronics of the clock is organised, but ....