Post Title norms

[Joey Stewart]

Now I know you only need the three and a rating to get norm requiring titles but I was thinking that after becoming a GM it is still quite feasible to get a performance that would qualify for a norm were they still seeking one and whether anyone ever kept track of such a thing (i presume in the 2700 invite only club just playing any event at all would be sufficient since every opponent is a high rated grand master)

[LawrenceCooper]

Now I know you only need the three and a rating to get norm requiring titles but I was thinking that after becoming a GM it is still quite feasible to get a performance that would qualify for a norm were they still seeking one and whether anyone ever kept track of such a thing (i presume in the 2700 invite only club just playing any event at all would be sufficient since every opponent is a high rated grand master)

Not sure about post ones but my first one expired (Back then norms last for five (and then six) years but thankfully now they are for life) so I had to get four, rather than three.

[Christopher Kreuzer]

To add to this, sometimes GMs playing lower rated opposition will get a TPR of over 2600, but the average of their opponents' ratings will be below 2380. So it would not count as a post-title norm. Not that anyone really cares about this after the title is secured.

[Roger de Coverly]

So it would not count as a post-title norm. Not that anyone really cares about this after the title is secured.

I think some GMs may keep track of how many times they've exceeded the Norm requirement. Perhaps they look to demonstrate their superiority over those who just scraped home on the title requirements.

[Keith Arkell]

I made 4 completely correct GM norms in a 10 month period in my mid 50s: Isle of Man ‘2014, World Senior Ch ‘14, Hastings ‘14 and Vienna ‘15. I invite anyone to check these. I can’t remember much between then and when I completed my title in the mid 90s, but I suspect Wroxham GM in 2002 was at least close, and my only appearance at the famous Hastings Round Robin was certainly a GM norm. I must have made norms in the numerous international Opens I competed in, for example when Stu Conquest and me jointly won a very strong Ostend.

It’s just nice to play decent chess as an old git rather than to
prove anything. I’d estimate that I have about 12 or 13 completely correct GM norms.

[Alex McFarlane]

Only slightly off topic.
I did have an IM come up to me 4 or 5 years after gaining the title and asked "Can I get an IM norm?" I, knowing he was already an IM, assumed he was asking about a GM norm and answered that he was well short of a GM norm. At that point he confirmed that he was asking about an IM norm as he had never achieved one after getting the 3 he needed for his title.

Having said that, I know that there have been examples of players struggling to get their last norm but once achieving it and getting several more quickly thereafter. Who they were I cannot remember though. There are also players with three or more norms but have not got the important one with the right mix of foreign players but only from national championships or events satisfying the 20 foreign player rule.

[LawrenceCooper]

I suspect Wroxham GM in 2002 was at least close

https://www.365chess.com/tournaments/Wrexham_2002/

Your performance was 2600+ but as you were one of three GMs at the time so that would invalid it being a GM norm. Interesting to see that three players (Gormally in 2005, Arakhamia in 2009 and Paehtz in 2022) now have the title.

[Alex Holowczak]

I suspect Wroxham GM in 2002 was at least close

https://www.365chess.com/tournaments/Wrexham_2002/

Your performance was 2600+ but as you were one of three GMs at the time so that would invalid it being a GM norm. Interesting to see that three players (Gormally in 2005, Arakhamia in 2009 and Paehtz in 2022) now have the title.

Also interesting to see 365chess get hold of the games and think "Nahhh, they must mean Wrexham".

One of those players is in the race to become the President of the Americas Continental Chess Federation.

[LawrenceCooper]

I suspect Wroxham GM in 2002 was at least close

https://www.365chess.com/tournaments/Wrexham_2002/

Your performance was 2600+ but as you were one of three GMs at the time so that would invalid it being a GM norm. Interesting to see that three players (Gormally in 2005, Arakhamia in 2009 and Paehtz in 2022) now have the title.

Also interesting to see 365chess get hold of the games and think "Nahhh, they must mean Wrexham".

One of those players is in the race to become the President of the Americas Continental Chess Federation.

They weren't the only ones, multiple players asked if Wroxham was a typo.

[Christopher Kreuzer]

I suspect Wroxham GM in 2002 was at least close

https://www.365chess.com/tournaments/Wrexham_2002/

Your performance was 2600+ but as you were one of three GMs at the time so that would invalid it being a GM norm. Interesting to see that three players (Gormally in 2005, Arakhamia in 2009 and Paehtz in 2022) now have the title.

Why would 365chess display the current titles of the players and not their titles at the time? I presume chess-results.com maintains the historical record better.

[Christopher Kreuzer]

Which Ostend Open is this?

I found the 1987 one, which Conquest won with 7.5/9:

https://www.365chess.com/tournaments/Os ... 1987/20476

The 1991 Ostend Open was won by Tony Miles ahead of Mickey Adams:

https://www.365chess.com/tournaments/Os ... 1991/18811

Interesting looking through those Ostend Opens. Not all there on 365chess.

[Roger de Coverly]

They weren't the only ones, multiple players asked if Wroxham was a typo.

Just to confuse the issue, there had already been a series of Wrexham International tournaments,

https://www.welshchessunion.uk/wrexham- ... b-history/

THE INTERNATIONAL TOURNAMENTS (1994-98)

In 1994 Grandmaster Nigel Davies, who is one of Britain’s leading players, was living in Wrexham. In association with him and with the Wrexham Borough Council, the Club organised an International Tournament at Redwither Tower in Wrexham. The commercial sponsors were Owens Corning, who had a factory in the area. Following the success of the first event, the tournament was soon established as one of the four premier annual events of British chess – the others being the traditional Hastings Tournament (first played in 1895), the British Championship and the Isle of Man Open.

The Wrexham tournaments were traditional ten player all-play-all events. They were Category 7 tournaments on the international scale – intended for grandmasters, masters and others seeking these titles. An innovative feature was the first use in Britain at the international level of digital clocks with the “Fischer” incremental time control.

Over the five years the tournament was held players from Germany, Sweden, Czech Republic, Finland, Hungary, India, New Zealand, Netherlands, Denmark, Russia, USA, Iceland, England and Wales took part. The most eminent players to participate were David Bronstein, who drew a match for the World Championship in 1951 and Mark Taimanov, who famously lost to Bobby Fischer.

The tournament winners (from the UK unless stated otherwise) were:-

1994 1st N. Davies 7½ 2nd L. Karlsson (Sweden) 7
1995 1st J. Howell 6½ 2nd I. Csom (Hungary) & M. Pein 5½
1996 1st C. Ward 6½ 2nd N. Davies 6
1997 1st A. Kinsman 7 2nd M. Taimanov (Russia) 6½
1998 1st & 2nd = T. Thorhallsson (Iceland) & S. Brynell (Sweden) 6½

[Christopher Kreuzer]

Sorry, was looking in wrong year. Needs to be an Ostend Open from 1995 or later.

[Mick Norris]

There's a little about the Wrexham tournaments here

Interesting to see that

The club was founded in December 1886

which is quite a history

Wonder if it would be possible now Wrexham is firmly on the international map, to revive the tournaments

Although, equally, Wroxham would be good

[Christopher Kreuzer]

Wroxham (had to look it up) is in the middle of nowhere (the Norfolk Broads):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wroxham

Do I have the right place? How did a chess tournament get held there?