Division 1/2 2021-22

Venues, fixtures, teams and related matters.
Nick Burrows
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Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:15 pm

Re: Division 1/2 2021-22

Post by Nick Burrows » Tue Mar 29, 2022 4:18 pm

Should a rule that forces most of Englands brightest young prosects who play for WGY into Div 2 be re-examined?

LawrenceCooper
Posts: 7167
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:13 am

Re: Division 1/2 2021-22

Post by LawrenceCooper » Tue Mar 29, 2022 4:20 pm

Mick Norris wrote:
Tue Mar 29, 2022 1:58 pm
So looking at the table the issues are indeed the 2 teams from Wood Green and White Rose being in the top 12, which unless they split into separate squads (?), means that West is Best and Sussex Martlets are currently in a Div 1 place on 6 points, and in 22nd Warks on 5 points would get Div 3
I've just noticed that the rules have been amended since I printed them off at the start of the season. At the time 13.4 read:

13.4

For the 2022-23 season, in Divisions 1, 2, 3 South, 3 Central and 3 North, no more than one team from any club will be permitted to play in the same division.

It now reads:

13.4

For the 2022-23 season, in Divisions 1, 2, 3 South, 3 Central and 3 North, no more than one team from a combined squad will be permitted to play in the same division.

Wadih Khoury
Posts: 604
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:14 pm

Re: Division 1/2 2021-22

Post by Wadih Khoury » Tue Mar 29, 2022 4:21 pm

What does the following quote from a previous post mean ?
The teams finishing in 13th to 21st place will compose Division 1 & 2 in the 2022-23 season.

LawrenceCooper
Posts: 7167
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:13 am

Re: Division 1/2 2021-22

Post by LawrenceCooper » Tue Mar 29, 2022 4:24 pm

Nick Burrows wrote:
Tue Mar 29, 2022 4:18 pm
Should a rule that forces most of Englands brightest young prosects who play for WGY into Div 2 be re-examined?
Nice idea :D

They will have the opportunity to play in the first team in 2022-23.

LawrenceCooper
Posts: 7167
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:13 am

Re: Division 1/2 2021-22

Post by LawrenceCooper » Tue Mar 29, 2022 4:26 pm

Wadih Khoury wrote:
Tue Mar 29, 2022 4:21 pm
What does the following quote from a previous post mean ?
The teams finishing in 13th to 21st place will compose Division 1 & 2 in the 2022-23 season.
I suspect it should read "The teams finishing in 13th to 21st place will compose Division 2 in the 2022-23 season."

Wadih Khoury
Posts: 604
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:14 pm

Re: Division 1/2 2021-22

Post by Wadih Khoury » Tue Mar 29, 2022 4:58 pm

Thanks that would indeed make more sense. I thought there was some weird combined division system.

LawrenceCooper
Posts: 7167
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:13 am

Re: Division 1/2 2021-22

Post by LawrenceCooper » Tue Mar 29, 2022 5:17 pm

Wadih Khoury wrote:
Tue Mar 29, 2022 4:58 pm
Thanks that would indeed make more sense. I thought there was some weird combined division system.
The wording sounds a bit odd. It should probably say "will form part of" as there will also be the winners from 3c, 3n and 3s.

Rhys Cumming
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Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:31 am

Re: Division 1/2 2021-22

Post by Rhys Cumming » Tue Mar 29, 2022 7:00 pm

Nick Burrows wrote:
Tue Mar 29, 2022 4:18 pm
Should a rule that forces most of Englands brightest young prosects who play for WGY into Div 2 be re-examined?
This is a fair question, I'm not sure of the exact motivation for the rule change: prior to the pool system there were 2 teams per squad allowed. A situation in which there are 12 distinct squads is obviously preferable but it's unclear whether this is of enough significance to instigate problems for larger squads (it's probably only Wood Green who are majorly inconvenienced by this). I imagine the desire is to not end up in another situation where a team's largest competitor for the title is their 2nd team, but in a post-Guildford era this doesn't seem quite as likely in the short term at least.

Arguably though, the top teams end up having as many teams as they are allowed: it's not unreasonable to assume that if Guildford were allowed 3 teams in the top division, they might have had a similar looking team of 'England's brightest prospects' as their 3rd team. I guess the question is what actually happens in the event that WG are not allowed a 2nd team in Div 1: if it is those players either playing in Div 2 forever or not at all, then it is probably a bad idea. If in reality those players end up forming a breakaway team or are all playing in other teams in the division anyway, then it is perhaps not the end of the world.

If they are allowing the squads to split up, but they are fundamentally linked as a parent/feeder teams then it probably doesn't even have the desired effect either. Theoretically it could actually help the squad if it were able to bring in some ringers to its second team for a weekend when they were playing a title rival in a way they wouldn't have been able to with a combined squad.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: Division 1/2 2021-22

Post by LawrenceCooper » Wed Mar 30, 2022 2:43 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote:
Tue Mar 29, 2022 4:20 pm
Mick Norris wrote:
Tue Mar 29, 2022 1:58 pm
So looking at the table the issues are indeed the 2 teams from Wood Green and White Rose being in the top 12, which unless they split into separate squads (?), means that West is Best and Sussex Martlets are currently in a Div 1 place on 6 points, and in 22nd Warks on 5 points would get Div 3
I've just noticed that the rules have been amended since I printed them off at the start of the season. At the time 13.4 read:

13.4

For the 2022-23 season, in Divisions 1, 2, 3 South, 3 Central and 3 North, no more than one team from any club will be permitted to play in the same division.

It now reads:

13.4

For the 2022-23 season, in Divisions 1, 2, 3 South, 3 Central and 3 North, no more than one team from a combined squad will be permitted to play in the same division.
Just in from Mike Truran:

We’ve been asked how rule 13.4 will be applied for the 2022-23 season. Our intention was, and is, that teams from combined squads in the current 2021-22 season will be eligible to play in the same division in the 2022-23 season as described in rule 13.4, but only if they elect before the start of the 2022-23 season to play as split squads rather than combined squads. So in effect not dissimilar to the ‘no more than two teams from combined squads in the same division’ approach of pre-Covid days (but with ‘two’ changed to ‘one’).

In all the pre-season excitement we failed to use more felicitous wording to describe what was intended. We’ve amended the rule accordingly – please see below (‘no more than one team from any club’ changed to ‘no more than one team from a combined squad’).

Kind regards
Mike

13.4
For the 2022-23 season, in Divisions 1, 2, 3 South, 3 Central and 3 North, no more than one team from a combined squad will be permitted to play in the same division. If it is not possible to organise a Division 4 at a venue, then this rule will not apply to Division 3 at that venue. Where this situation is caused by a team finishing in a promotion place, the next eligible team will be promoted instead. Where this situation is caused by a team being relegated into a lower division, the necessary number of teams from that club will be relegated from that division and the highest placed team that would otherwise have been relegated will escape relegation. The top placed eligible teams will be offered promotion as required to ensure that the complement of twelve teams in Divisions 1, 2, 3 South, 3 Central and 3 North is maintained.

Mick Norris
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Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester

Re: Division 1/2 2021-22

Post by Mick Norris » Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:01 am

Saturday:
11 Cheddleton - - - Wood Green
12 Chess.com Manx Liberty - - - The Sharks 1
13 Guildford Young Guns - - - Alba
14 Chessable White Rose 2 - - - Barbican 4NCL
15 Wood Green Youth - - - KJCA Kings
16 Chessable White Rose 1 - - - Sussex Martlets 1
17 Gonzaga - - - North East England
18 Cambridge University 1 - - - West is Best 1
19 Celtic Tigers 1 - - - Barnet Knights A
20 The ADs - - - Blackthorne
21 Guildford Castles - - - Warwickshire Select 1
22 Check Inn - - - Anglian Avengers

Saturday/Sunday:
40 Oxford 1 - - - The Sharks 2
41 The Sharks 2 - - - Manchester Manticores 1
42 Manchester Manticores 1 - - - Oxford 1

No Kings Head again
Any postings on here represent my personal views

LawrenceCooper
Posts: 7167
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:13 am

Re: Division 1/2 2021-22

Post by LawrenceCooper » Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:38 am

Anyone travelling to and from London on Saturday-Monday by public transport is advised to check their route in advance as the Euston-Milton Keynes line is out of action so London-Rugby is likely to involve a train from St Pancras to Kettering and a bus to Rugby. Returning on Monday looks more problematic, ironically there are direct trains from Leamington and National Rail is currently telling me to go Rugby-Coventry-Leamington-London!

Wadih Khoury
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Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:14 pm

Re: Division 1/2 2021-22

Post by Wadih Khoury » Sun May 01, 2022 7:44 am

Round 8 appears to pitch the 2 Wood green teams and the 2 Chessable teams against each other.
Is that a rare or common occurrence to have a team playing itself?

LawrenceCooper
Posts: 7167
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:13 am

Re: Division 1/2 2021-22

Post by LawrenceCooper » Sun May 01, 2022 12:20 pm

Wadih Khoury wrote:
Sun May 01, 2022 7:44 am
Round 8 appears to pitch the 2 Wood green teams and the 2 Chessable teams against each other.
Is that a rare or common occurrence to have a team playing itself?
It's certainly a conicidence for both to be playing in the same round of a swiss. Had it been an all-play-all they would play in round 1 but at least a potentially awkward last round pairing has now been avoided.

Jonathan Rogers
Posts: 4634
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:26 pm

Re: Division 1/2 2021-22

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Sun May 01, 2022 12:42 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote:
Sun May 01, 2022 12:20 pm
Wadih Khoury wrote:
Sun May 01, 2022 7:44 am
Round 8 appears to pitch the 2 Wood green teams and the 2 Chessable teams against each other.
Is that a rare or common occurrence to have a team playing itself?
It's certainly a conicidence for both to be playing in the same round of a swiss. Had it been an all-play-all they would play in round 1 but at least a potentially awkward last round pairing has now been avoided.
yes, in the old days of 12 team all play alls, the clash between teams in the same division would happen in the first weekend, usually in round one, though sometimes in the second round (the "barbie derby" of 2003/4, the Guildford derby in 2005/6). Then when we moved to the pool system from 2008/9, teams would always start in different pools, which allowed for the possibility that they would not meet at all during the season, but if they did they would play in round 8, that is, as soon as the second pool had started. All of Guildford, Wood Green and Barbican continued to have derbies, though none of them in every year, though when they did happen it was always in the championship pool.

The best known was the Guildford derby in the very first year of the new system in 2008/8, where Guildford 1, having won its first pool with 7/7, did not win as a much as one game, and lost 3-5 (David Howell lost with White against Mohammed Tissir). That probably did cost them the title, at least in the sense that, had they won as expected, they would have successfully defended their title if they had still made the same draw with Wood Green in the last round.

This might be Loz's first derby, so let's tease with him with that historic round eight memory while we can :P

Jonathan Rogers
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Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:26 pm

Re: Division 1/2 2021-22

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Sun May 01, 2022 1:28 pm

Shirov currently facing the London for second consecutive time in 4NCL!

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