4NCL online - some chess!!!

Venues, fixtures, teams and related matters.
MartinCarpenter
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Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 10:58 am

Re: 4NCL online - some chess!!!

Post by MartinCarpenter » Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:12 pm

The White Rose - Wood Green emi is making me feel better about the number of pieces I give away playing online :)

Mildly impressed that Sielecki has managed to keep playing moves rather than resigning on aesthetic grounds after e6 nailed both kingside pieces down for good.

David Robertson
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Re: 4NCL online - some chess!!!

Post by David Robertson » Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:29 pm

The final position is highly lollable
IM Christof Sielecki (via Twitter) wrote:Not going our way' is a very understated way of saying that I got thrashed mercilessly :-) But we are through, probably with a 3-1 at the end!

Caoimhín de Búrca
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Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:21 am

Re: 4NCL online - some chess!!!

Post by Caoimhín de Búrca » Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:51 pm

Nick Burrows wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:04 pm
Why did Anglian Avengers default?
3 Smarties 1 Tube defaulted in Div 3 also.

A bit...unsatisfactory all told?

Pete Heaven
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Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:47 pm

Re: 4NCL online - some chess!!!

Post by Pete Heaven » Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:02 pm

Both teams have had players banned during the past week.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: 4NCL online - some chess!!!

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:10 pm

Pete Heaven wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:02 pm
Both teams have had players banned during the past week.
By lichess or the 4NCL?

If it's lichess, no evidence is presented.

Thomas Rendle
Posts: 392
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:31 am

Re: 4NCL online - some chess!!!

Post by Thomas Rendle » Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:22 pm

First let me say I'm not clear on exactly why teams have withdrawn. It may be that reasons vary somewhat.

Having said that, to withdraw a whole team rather than to field a different player... doesn't sit well with me at all. You can play on under protest but you play. Not doing so seems disrespectful to the opposition, especially at such a late stage. Oh well.

I did enjoy the chess tonight though, lots of interesting games. Hopefully more to come next week in the final!

Pete Heaven
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Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:47 pm

Re: 4NCL online - some chess!!!

Post by Pete Heaven » Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:32 pm

Hi - to be more more precise, their entries have the lichess 'computer assistance' flag and no, I don't know if this was reason the teams withdrew - not all teams who have had players banned in the past 7 days withdrew. However, it seems like a possible reason.

Neil Graham
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Re: 4NCL online - some chess!!!

Post by Neil Graham » Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:51 pm

A totally unsatisfactory situation. I await the next 4NCL Fair Play update report with interest; surely there should have been one before we reached the knock-out stages?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: 4NCL online - some chess!!!

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:06 am

Neil Graham wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:51 pm
A totally unsatisfactory situation. I await the next 4NCL Fair Play update report with interest; surely there should have been one before we reached the knock-out stages?
I thought lichess were outside the control of the 4NCL.

I have two thoughts on this. One is that anyone playing good moves is vulnerable to being accused. The other is as to whether teams are gaming the system. You have a player who is in fact using external assistance. They get banned, but the team as a whole has qualified for something. A sacrifice for a long term advantage.

John McKenna
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Re: 4NCL online - some chess!!!

Post by John McKenna » Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:51 am

"... The other is as to whether teams are gaming the system. You have a player who is in fact using external assistance. They get banned, but the team as a whole has qualified for something. A sacrifice for a long term advantage."

I did notice a player - in team that qualified for the KO stages - who won all his games when white and when black conceded a single draw. (That was against opponents roughly about the same rating as himself - some a bit higher and some a bit more lower.)

He disappeared along the line - I know not why.

Anyway, the show must go on...

I'd check what follows as it is my unofficial version.

Finals -

Div 1 -

Chessable WR I v. Guildford Younguns

Div. 2 -

Wood Green Youth v. ChessPlus Beta

Div. 3 -

Brentwood v. Warwick U. B

Div. 4 -

Celtic Tiger Cubs v. Chessmates/Bon Accord B?

(Not sure about Bon Accord B - they drew 2-2 in the semis with wins on boards 1 & 4.)

Let's hope all turn up next Tue.
Last edited by John McKenna on Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

Caoimhín de Búrca
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Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:21 am

Re: 4NCL online - some chess!!!

Post by Caoimhín de Búrca » Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:19 am

A win on board 4 means you lose on second tie-break -
If the event of a drawn match, the tie will be broken using:
a. The lower board count in the results between the teams which remain tied;
b. The game points remaining after elimination of the bottom board or boards as
necessary;
c. The team with the higher end of season placing (i.e. closer to 1)

Roger Lancaster
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Re: 4NCL online - some chess!!!

Post by Roger Lancaster » Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:10 pm

John McKenna wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:51 am
I did notice a player - in team that qualified for the KO stages - who won all his games when white and when black conceded a single draw. (That was against opponents roughly about the same rating as himself - some a bit higher and some a bit more lower.)

He disappeared along the line - I know not why.
I can also identify a player fitting this description but I don't have any insight into the circumstances.

Jonathan Rogers
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Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:26 pm

Re: 4NCL online - some chess!!!

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:51 pm

Almost impossible though it apparently is to stick to the chess, the first division match last night was interesting and bodes well for the final, which I feel quite sure WILL take place. Presumably Gawain will play against his "real" 4NCL team?

Richard Weaving must have made a huge score for his team; similarly James Adair, without whom White Rose could have been sensationally defeated in the QF.

Adam Ashton
Posts: 87
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: 4NCL online - some chess!!!

Post by Adam Ashton » Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:31 pm

Thomas Rendle wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:22 pm
First let me say I'm not clear on exactly why teams have withdrawn. It may be that reasons vary somewhat.

Having said that, to withdraw a whole team rather than to field a different player... doesn't sit well with me at all. You can play on under protest but you play. Not doing so seems disrespectful to the opposition, especially at such a late stage. Oh well.

I did enjoy the chess tonight though, lots of interesting games. Hopefully more to come next week in the final!
If a team feels that the issue is in Lichess detection methods and they ban players too casually, then I could understand their not wanting to support the platform any further. Wouldn't playing on without them be a tacit admission of their guilt?

I honestly feel the issues with on-line chess for serious play are not resolvable. Therefore maybe the emphasis should be on 'fun' until we can get back to otb. On-line happens to be perfect for bullet, chess960 etc...

Thomas Rendle
Posts: 392
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:31 am

Re: 4NCL online - some chess!!!

Post by Thomas Rendle » Wed Jun 24, 2020 2:58 pm

Adam Ashton wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:31 pm
Thomas Rendle wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:22 pm
First let me say I'm not clear on exactly why teams have withdrawn. It may be that reasons vary somewhat.

Having said that, to withdraw a whole team rather than to field a different player... doesn't sit well with me at all. You can play on under protest but you play. Not doing so seems disrespectful to the opposition, especially at such a late stage. Oh well.

I did enjoy the chess tonight though, lots of interesting games. Hopefully more to come next week in the final!
If a team feels that the issue is in Lichess detection methods and they ban players too casually, then I could understand their not wanting to support the platform any further. Wouldn't playing on without them be a tacit admission of their guilt?

I honestly feel the issues with on-line chess for serious play are not resolvable. Therefore maybe the emphasis should be on 'fun' until we can get back to otb. On-line happens to be perfect for bullet, chess960 etc...
To be honest I disagree, I think you can say you dispute the decision and play the match anyway. Hopefully this will be clearer if/when there's a right of appeal. I think we have a great opportunity to promote serious chess online, but I admit it won't convince everyone.

I'm really looking forward to the final and I'm intending to do some commentary, obviously concentrating on Division 1 but maybe checking out other games as well. I wonder what team Guildford will field for the final!?

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