4NCL North 2013-14

[Alex Holowczak]

I've just asked the arbiter anyway. Here's what happened:

(1) Seeding
The teams were seeded based on the following criteria: (i) Where they finished in 2012-13 (ii) The average rating of the squad (I didn't ask how multiple teams affected this). This means that a new squad couldn't be seeded higher than the team that finished last in 2012-13. So if there are n teams, and n/2 teams played last season, the best new team based on registrations will play the team that was the highest-placed team from 3N last season. For the purposes of (i) and (ii), Ferry Across the Maroczy was considered a new squad, rather than inheriting the players from either Aigburth or Atticus, which are I gather a squad formed from those two teams.

(2) Pairing Round 1
This was done as a normal Swiss, so it'd be 1 v 8, 9 v 2 ...

(3) Pairing Round 2
The pairing algorithm doesn't work properly where the number of teams isn't divisible by 4. The thrust is that the average rating concept comes into it: As far as possible, teams are paired such that they all play the same average rating of opponents. However, this hit an obstacle: As were playing Bs. Cheddletons and Ferrys were involved, and so pairings were swapped, on the grounds that the decision had been made to keep teams from the same squad apart in weekend 1.

It's far from an exact science, as you can see.

[Roger de Coverly]

This means that a new squad couldn't be seeded higher than the team that finished last in 2012-13.

That would seem an immensely suspect method if there's any sort of intention to produce "fair" pairings in the early rounds. You wouldn't do it for an Individual Swiss.

[MartinCarpenter]

It does seem faintly incredible yes. It explains what happened I suppose, and at least a temporary bout of insanity.

One thing to with seeding squads by average grade would be something like team size + fifty per cent. Clearly not absolutely perfect but it does seem to rather closely match the squad sizes so you should get fairly sane results.

Doing that, and rounding, you end up with.
NE 1: 200; Spirit1, Ched 2: 195; Ferry1: 182; Holmes Chapel: 175; Jorvik, Spirit2, Manchester 1, DCA 2: 170; NE 2, Ched 3: 160; DCA 3: 155, Manchester 2: 150, Ferry 2: 140.

Logically I guess you'd then split DCA 2/Spirit 2 down into bottom seeds as they're naturally a little more prone to having players taken away. You can see how big the differences in strength are going to be this year, so the draw does matter. Last year with fewer teams and somewhat fewer weak ones it won't have made much difference.

[Alex Holowczak]

My explanation deliberately chose not to defend the seeding system...

[Mick Norris]

The basic mistake is treating Ferry as a new team, rather than a replacement of Aigburth (and/or Atticus) from last season, meaning they are not seeded and we are

Hence, we play Spirit on Sunday, rather than Saturday, with Spirit playing Ferry on Saturday rather than Sunday

Seedings are:
1 Spirit 1
2 NE 1
3 Cheddleton 2
4 Holmes Chapel
5 Jorvik
6 Bradford B
7 Manchester 1 but should be Aigburth/Atticus i.e. Ferry based on last year's final Div 3 North table

[MartinCarpenter]

I was baffled by the second round too, but thinking about it I guess its sort of consequent that Spirit are playing Manchester 1 in the second round. Balancing out their 'easy' draw in the first round.....

Have to say I'm a bit confused by why you'd try and balance things in the second round. Surely more normal to do a second top seeds/bottom seeds draw? I suppose this bit will be the same in the main div3 though.

[Mick Norris]

At least after the first weekend, some of the guess work about team strength will have gone, and the pairings for the second weekend should be a bit easier to work out

I'm looking forward to seeing the teams there and being part of a bigger group

Time to concentrate on the real preparations now i.e. where (and when) we are going to eat on the Saturday night

[MartinCarpenter]

Ah, important matters Not sure I can help much mind. Darlington certainly gives the impression that there must be decent places to eat out but I've never actually done it. York/Durham rather well served of course.

[Andrew Bak]

Checking out the Spirit of Atticus reports from a few years ago on the 4ncl website might give you some good recommendations on where to go!

[David Robertson]

Checking out the Spirit of Atticus reports from a few years ago on the 4ncl website might give you some good recommendations on where to go!

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Ye Gods! First they prep your games. Then they prep your restaurants

[MartinCarpenter]

Looks like you saw it coming The 10/11 report cunningly just mentions a good curry house some drive away. Could be a lot of places starting from Darlington!

[David Robertson]

It was Persian. And we travelled halfway to Persia to find it. Good when we got there. But not this year!

[Andrew Bak]

Checking out the Spirit of Atticus reports from a few years ago on the 4ncl website might give you some good recommendations on where to go!

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Ye Gods! First they prep your games. Then they prep your restaurants

Well how else are we going to spy on your team talks?

[David Robertson]

The 4NCL Board & Directors (ie Mike Truran) have today announced new criteria for entry to the Northern League (3N). Eligibility will henceforth be determined by this TEST

[Christopher Kreuzer]

The 4NCL Board & Directors (ie Mike Truran) have today announced new criteria for entry to the Northern League (3N). Eligibility will henceforth be determined by this TEST

My arrow ended up down near the Isle of Wight and I'm 7% northern...